does ANYBODY like....

Colossians 1:19-20
"For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in the Son. 20. And through him to reconcile all things to himself by making peace through the blood of his cross-through him, whether things on earth or things in heaven." NET

Christ has reconciled ALL things to himself including HipHop. People really bug me when applying principles of the OT. They say David danced but offered sacrifices. Yet if I wanted to get an earring they would quote strait from Leviticus. The point is people such as yourself only use the OT to pick and choose what will be accepted and what will be done away with. Please come up with some sort of guidline.

 

nate,

thats a pretty ridiculous application of that verse. By your logic then we can say that God has reconciled marijuana to HImself, and cocaine, and crack, get my point?

That verse is not saying that anything goes now in life! You can do whatever you want in any way you want! This is NOT what the verse you quoted is saying.

Like I said before, God does care HOW you worship Him. He's laid out guidelines and principles which we need to follow, whether you like it or not.

BTW, just because you LIKE it does not make it right, even if you are a Christian. Just being saved does not mean that all our likes and dislikes are spiritual. A constant diet of anything will cause us to become "calloused" to it, and if we get where we think that because we have the Holy Spirit living in us we MUST be right, then we are in a very dangerous place. It will affect more than just the music you listen to.

 

I do have some guidelines that came from the Bible. I posted it here in this discussion area once before, and it wasn't real popular.

 

1 Chronicles 12:32b "they understood the times and knew what Israel should do" NET. Did you know hip hop is the best selling genre of music. Kids in white suburbia soak up the gangsta appeal. Eminem sold 11 million units of 1 cd. 50 Cent sold 16 million units of The Massacre. This is an excellent area of ministry. So many people are into hip hop it is an excellent way to reach kids with the gospel.

 

Nate,
Now would you mind explaining what Chronicals 12:32b has to do your views on hip-hop and rap.
Some folks will go through the Bible and twist the scriptures to suit their purpose.
I hope you are not one of them.

 

You should never judge something based solely on how many people like it.

That especially goes for people who are UNsaved. Frankly, it doesn't matter if hip hop is the best selling genre of music.
We are to reach people with the gospel, not with music. Music is a tool for worship and praise of God, it is not essentially a tool for evangelism.

This does not mean that no one has ever gotten saved listening to a song....because I know there are cases of that happening. But it has NEVER happened in a case where the person had not heard the gospel BEFORE through preaching.

God is the One who said that He chose PREACHING to reach people. Music is nice, but as I said, it is not meant to be a way, in and of itself, to see people saved.


For the most part, nate, the world laughs at Christian's attempts to mimic their style of music.
Its made fun of and denigrated constantly. They see it as an attempt to make money, yet keeping our nice "God words" while we do it.

 

1Co 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Ro 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Ro 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?


Yes, I know that the world laughs at Christians all the time. That wasn't the main thought of my post. My point was that for the most part it is not unsaved people coming to these Christian rock concerts. Its Christian kids. Im saying it isn't unsaved kids who are out buying Christian hip hop music, its Christian kids.

Obviously, God's Word does not come back void...thats a Bible verse too.......but that fact does not mean that God does not care about the method.


Really, we need to get away from thinking that we have to do absolutely anything in order to draw large crowds. All we are responsible for doing is going out there and witnessing and preaching to the lost. The response is in the Lord's hands.

 

I'm blue, mainly. Though it's not really important to me one way or another. Most people take it very seriously though, like politics and religion! I have a brother-in-law who wouldn't be caught dead in red socks...lol

 

My guess is that kind of talk might offend and annoy you because you would miss-judge it as always applying to doing drugs, hey so did the older generation of my day. Truth be known pot-heads started it and it spread worldly values across the country because of its origin.

Actually gekko there is several points to my post. The main point would be that just before my generation many of the teens and young adults actually talked like that (if it would annoy you after a while maybe then you can relate to how others might feel about now) the metaphors and symbolism of that day were well understood by the younger generations who listened to rock but I remember the adults didn’t get it and certainly didn’t care for it. It didn’t mean all the ones talking that way were doing drugs just because they were relating to space and trippin, neither do I think all the ones listening and speaking metaphors related to rap/hip-hop are gangsters.

It was a rebellion against the older generation in using that symbolism as it was known to be despised for what it represented. It’s selfish and immature, it’s not glorifying the majority of the Body; there’s nothing new under the sun and your turn is coming. When I hear the rock of today I know its origin because it began in my day, and I know what it represents, plan and simple the sound itself represents trippin on drugs so personally when I hear the wavy acid rock sound applied to Christian music I do not find it uplifting at all.

My daughter is seriously into music, she sings solos at church, is involved is several choruses, just finished a musical play being the youngest actor on the staff (at 13) on a large stage. She doesn’t like it when I say “cool” either, heck she even tried to tell me I’m not cool, doesn’t realize my generation invented the meaning of the word. So anyway I decided to look into the modern music of Christianity so I can better guide and direct her.

Some of the links I pulled up the first thing out of their mouth was a very devilish scream that sounded more like a belch followed by acid rock sound and lyrics that I doubt even those that listen to it know many of the words. Where’s the message, the story, the uplifting for the general public? Lets be honest here, it represents rebellion, glorifying the Church ranks second, and it’s an immature way to praise God, and it is not edifying to the Body but self serving. Reminds me of how we used to sing “Imagine” from John Lennon thinking peace and love, but not realizing it was the words on an atheist.

That said, I did find some decent modern music with some comprehensible messages and some original sounds that were lead of the spirit instead of copied from mannerism and likes of the pagans.

BTW, I'd guess many around here understood what I said and where I was coming from better than you did and if we used it for separation it wouldn't be "cool"

 

Ok we have made no progress. So here it is my friends. PLEASE outline what is an acceptable form of worship. Give us exactly what it is; then we can go from there.

 

In our town there are a group of IFBC preachers that go out and stand on the corner and streetpreach for an hour hour an a half depending on how long winded they are. They generally only make people mad and don't lead that many to Christ. Yet they say there is no such thing as "christian" rap. while that christian rap has won 3 times as many people to Christ. Thats knowing the times and what to do. Is streetpreaching wrong? NO. But it's not "knowing the times"! Hiphop is an excellent way to reach the lost and it doesn't make anyone mad except people like you. With no Scripture to support your view.

 

nate,

A) since you don't go to their church, how do you know how many people they see saved through their street preaching? (All you'd have to do is call their churches and ask them, I bet they have them written down so they can actually do discipling.)


B) Since you DON'T know how many they see, you can't say that rap music has won 3 times as many people to Christ. Can you tell me how many people have been won to Christ through rap music?


C) nate, you haven't given any valid Scriptural support for your view as well....so don't criticize others for not. Your use of the two verses you quoted was what we'd call gross misquotings. Especially in your case with 2 Chronicles, where you only used the last half of the verse and it had nothing to do with what you were trying to prove.

 

God didn't say witness only one way. In fact he didn't even say in the Great command how we were to share the Gospel Christ just said Go. That's all hip hop wants to do is "Go and share the Gospel" If you guys don't like it fine. But don't tell me its wrong without Scripture.

 

Brice, since you asked Ill try to give you a brief rundown of what we see as Biblical principles which apply to music as well.


Part of it comes from the study of how music works, ok? Lyrics are NOT a part of this post, btw.

We first would agree that God is a God of balance. He says we need to do "all things decently and in order". He describes Himself as not being "of chaos." We constantly see Him wanting things done JUST so, do this a certain way, and do that a certain way. Do you see what Im getting at? He does not ever about anything say that we can do whatever we want in any way we want....especially when talking of how we worship or praise Him.

Bear with me, because Im not negating the idea of our Christian liberty, or finding freedom in Christ. But the purpose of this post is to lay out the Biblical principles concerning music. Principles are like a fence....we have perfect freedom within the fence, we are just not to go outside the boundaries of that fenceline. Ok? ok!


Music has three parts.....Melody, harmony, rhythm.

All three are necessary, all three have their place.

Those three parts each speak to us in a different way. Melody speaks to the spirit of a person. It is what gives direction to the music, it gives it form and purpose.

Harmony speaks to our soul. It stirs us, speaks to our emotions.

Rhythm speaks to our body. It gives the music "body", I dont know that I can describe it better than that. The tempo of a song is important, it aids in giving the music a "happy" beat, or it can make the piece seem sad or contemlative.


Look in the Bible. Which part of us is supposed to be in control?

The spirit....our spirit is supposed to be controlled by the Holy Spirit and is supposed to take pre-eminence over the other parts. Our soul, feelings, will, intellect, are supposed to be in subjection to the spirit. We are not to be led around by our emotions, but without our emotions we'd be flat.
Our body should be third. Without our body we'd be "dead". But when the body is in control thats called being a carnal Christian. We are told to "put our bodies under subjection."

I don't usually judge whole music genres. I attempt to judge each song on an individual basis.

There are a few genres which, if you go by these principles, we can see that they are obviously out of balance.
Theres a whole genre that is ALL harmony. Its music goes nowhere and does a good job of not getting there. It is ALL emotion and has no spirit and no body.
Rap is ALL body and no spirit or soul. Its just as out of balance.


Remember, as I said before, liking it is not ever a basis for deciding if its ok for a Christian. Just because youre a Christian does not mean that everything you like is good.

 

But I have! Only two years ago I left one of those churches. We had no one come to our church as a direct result of street preaching! While I have a friend who works in (Kane Jordan) Greenville SC who works with the underground christian hiphop scene there and says they have had nearly 50 people come to know Christ as a result of inner city ministries including rap.


B) Since you DON'T know how many they see, you can't say that rap music has won 3 times as many people to Christ. Can you tell me how many people have been won to Christ through rap music?

See above.

nate, you haven't given any valid Scriptural support for your view as well....so don't criticize others for not.
Yes but you are saying I'm wrong so it's up to you to prove I'm wrong not up to me to prove I'm not wrong. There is no Scripture against HipHop. Absolutly none zilch.

 

Nate,
To share share gospel with others you need to understand what the Gospel is.It is the good news concerning Christ,the death, burial and the ressurection.That Christ paid the price for our sins on the cross was buried and overcame death. whoever shall believe on Him shall not perish but have evrlasting life.
You will find the message of the Gospel in the New Testament.
The message of Chronicals 12:32 means as follows,

That is, as the following words indicate, intelligent men, who understood the signs of the times, well versed in political affairs, and knew what was proper to be done in all the exigencies of human life; and who now perceived that it was both the duty and political interest of Israel to advance David to the throne.
------------------------------------------
It is a good study but does not give the full message of the Christ that was yet to come.

Peace be with you Nate I hope that the Lord will lead you into a Church led Bible study so that you may percieve the message and hope that Bible has to offer you.