How do you feel about pastors who are women

I didn't mean to paint with such a broad stroke. I am simply implying that most who denounce the BF&M2K b/c of the elimation of the criterion clause usually follow suit in matters of "Jesus over Paul" hermeneutics. Is that better?

 

I didn't mean to paint with such a broad stroke. I am simply implying that most who denounce the BF&M2K b/c of the elimation of the criterion clause usually follow suit in matters of "Jesus over Paul" hermeneutics. Is that better? </font>[/QUOTE]It's a little bit better, but there are still many people who don't pit Jesus against Paul *and* still denounce the BF&M 2000 no matter what the SBC leadership says. You're talking to one and most Texas Baptists I know have a similar opinion.

This is not the forum for a discussion of the latest version of the BF&M, but I couldn't let that allegation go without pointing out that it is patently untrue to paint with that broad a brush.

 

In my opinion, there is simply no warrant, either in Scripture or in Tradition for women being ordained. If Jesus wanted women apostles, He would have had them. He didn't. I'm not particularly against women evangelists or teachers, but the presbyter of any congregation must be a male.

 

Still waiting for a biblical example of a woman pastor....

 

If it so clear why are we having this conversation?

 

Don,

Pastors found in Ephesians 4:11 is Strongs no 4166 poimen, A Shepherd (lit or fig)- Shepherd, Pastor.

Did Esther Shepherd the nation of Israel when she saved them from destruction?

Esther 4:15-17 "Go gather all the Jews who are present in Shushan, and fast for me; neither eat nor drink for three days, night or day. My maids and I will fast likewise. And so will I go to the king, which is against the law, and if I perish, I perish!" So Mordecai went his way and did according to all that Esther Commanded him.

The role of the Shepherd is to protect the flock. Not only did Esther protect the flock. She also gave commands to Mordecai.

 

And why did Esther give that commandment to Mordecai?
Esther 4:13 Then Mordecai commanded to answer Esther, Think not with thyself that thou shalt escape in the king’s house, more than all the Jews.

Also, think on this:
Esther 2:20 Esther had not yet shewed her kindred nor her people; as Mordecai had charged her: for Esther did the commandment of Mordecai, like as when she was brought up with him.

And after Esther used her position to elevate Mordecai:
Esther 9:3 And all the rulers of the provinces, and the lieutenants, and the deputies, and officers of the king, helped the Jews; because the fear of Mordecai fell upon them.

Esther, a hero of the faith? Most definitely. A shepherd, a pastor? Unclear.

 

I think the issue of a woman pastor is essentially a red-herring argument.
I think the real issue is why there is so little influence of godly women in the church today.

Jesus is returning for a Bride. That means a woman.
The Bride of the Lord Jesus Christ will be a beautiful woman, and a “helper suitable” (Gen 2:18) for the Lord Jesus. This means the Bride will be supernatural in nature and action, because this Bride will become the Wife of Jesus, the King of kings.

This Bride will have the qualities that the Apostle Paul spoke of in Ephesians chapter 5: [25] just as Christ loved the church (BRIDE) and gave himself up for her [26] to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, [27] and to present her to himself as a radiant church (BRIDE), without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Take a look at the Body of Christ today. What does it remind you of?
According to Scripture, the Body of Christ is a woman.
And today, in the United States, this woman looks like the bearded lady at the circus, a woman with very masculine features.
The church in the United States today is almost totally male dominated. There is very little feminine input, at all.

You may not want a woman as a pastor, but you need to consider whether you are being prepared to be with Jesus as His Bride.

 

Because of sin.

 

Because of sin. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm guessing you haven't bothered to check out the book by E. Earle Ellis.

 

Nope, been too busy reading the epistles of Paul.

 

Maybe you're reading them wrong... perhaps through the lens of your preconceptions...

 

I agree they can confess Christ just not be the Pastor

Murph

 

I'm guessing you haven't bothered to check out the book by E. Earle Ellis.[/QB][/QUOTE]

No thanks I will stick with the one written by the Holy Ghost

Murph

 

When I was a kid I had a toy called Stretch Armstrong, he was made of rubber and you could stretch him into any shape, but as I grew I gave up my toys.

Murph

 

One reason that a diminishing number of churches do not have women as Pastors is that the Male Pastors like to be "Control Freaks" and cant accept that a woman can preach a better sermon than they.

How many Female Pastors run off with the church secretary much like many of the fake male pastors that preach lies and deception.

Off all of the "Big name Preachers" that are now in Adultery how many women? Yet far more women are in full time ministry.

The problem is that most of the real men in churches are Women.

 

Absolutely correct, Ben. Has nothing to do with the Bible at all.

 

No but just like Esther women need to be prepared to shepherd the flock.

 

Slow down, guys!

I think women are called by God, but only when the men have refused. Consider Deborah, please...

As far as women being called into positions of leadership in the New Testament, I do think there are some possible examples:

Romans 16:1-2 -- possibly Phoebe -- the men are commanded to give her any help she may need.

Col. 4:15 -- Nympha -- listed without a husband but in regard to a church that met at her house.

These are not definitive examples, and I do think it is biblical that a woman not have authority over a man. However there have been times historically and in areas where the men abandon their role altogether, in which case God will raise up someone -- possibly a woman (who else is left?) -- to fill the vacant spot of leadership.

The problems this can engender are many, however, not because the woman is not capable, but because of the possible example and role model it gives other women. It can encourage the disruption of marriages when a woman decides her husband is not enough of a leader and attempts to take the role over herself. It can encourage daughters to not submit to their husbands, and that, too, will violently disrupt a marriage. Submission is a gift women give to men, but it is also a gift commanded by God...

 

Helen,

I think you are touching on an important issue, which is the need to distinguish between God's making use of women in leading roles in certain circumstances and His prescription for the way things ought to be done by the Church.
Deborah was a good example for you to list in this regard. Even though one might point out that this doesn't have direct relevance for the practice of the N.T. Church, she does provide a good example of the point I am trying to make. For example, in Judges 2 the author stresses that the LORD "raised up judges" (vs.16,18), but when the prophetess Deborah's role is discussed the author stresses that "the children of Israel came up to her for judgment" (4:5). There is no indication that a woman in leadership was the intended norm for Israel (let alone for the N.T. Church), even though God clearly did use Deborah in these exceptionally wicked times when "the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD" (4:1).

I also agree with you that "it is Biblical that a woman not have authority over a man", since Paul teaches this so clearly in 1Tim.2:11-12.

Pastork