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Your abortion view

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by Gina B, Jan 28, 2003.

?

I am......

  1. Pro-life and preach it

    40 vote(s)
    87.0%

  2. Pro-life but silent

    3 vote(s)
    6.5%

  3. Pro-choice and preach it

    1 vote(s)
    2.2%

  4. Pro-choice but silent

    2 vote(s)
    4.3%

  5. Undecided

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Top Posters
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  1. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    This time I'm putting it in a poll to get a better response, since most might be more comfortable in the anonymity of the poll rather than posting back.
    I'm just trying to get a better idea of where our leaders stand on this!
    So here goes...
     
    #1 Gina B, Jan 28, 2003
  2. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    Hi Gina: [​IMG]

    I am not a leader; but I preach pro-life to everyone I meet! As to the second question; I would not belong to a church that was pro-choice!

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
    #2 I Am Blessed 24, Jan 28, 2003
  3. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    "I'm afraid not to go with the congregation"?

    Not go with them where? To a pro-life rally? A pro-choice rally? Go along with their beliefs on the subject?

    Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to answer #2.
     
    #3 Don, Jan 28, 2003
  4. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Oh, and my abortion view may sound rather complex.

    Abortion is murder. Doctors and nurses who perform abortions are murderers. Women who get abortions are murderers. Fathers who allow or encourage the mother to get an abortion are murderers. Parents/guardians/teachers/etc. who allow or encourage girls to get abortions have a murdering spirit.

    By the same token, those who kill abortion doctors, in order to protect the unborn, are murderers. Those that support people who murder abortion doctors, either through direct support or failing to denounce their actions, are conspirators to murder.
     
    #4 Don, Jan 28, 2003
  5. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Don, I like your complex view! [​IMG] That was perfect.
    Question two meant not go along with what the majority of the congregations believes about abortion. Like even if one is pro-choice, they might say they're pro-life because they think that's what the congregation wants to hear him say.
    Gina
     
    #5 Gina B, Jan 28, 2003
  6. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    Don ; I totally agree with everything you said and I could not say it better myself, so I'm not going to! [​IMG]

    Sue
     
    #6 I Am Blessed 24, Jan 28, 2003
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    A train load of Jewish prisoners was sent down the track toward Auschwitz. Every day, another train. Every Sunday, the train would slowly rumble past a little church.

    The pitiful souls, on their way to death, would cry out to the Christians sitting in the church, pleading for help. Every Sunday, another train load.

    So what did the church do? When they heard the train approaching, the songleader would get up and say "SING LOUDER", hoping to drown out the wails and pleas from the victims.

    That's what most of our churches are doing for the Pro Life movement. We are singing louder, amening the preacher as he says we ought to defend the unborn.

    And doing nothing more.

    If killing a bunch of Nazi guards would have freed a trainload of Jews, those who did it would be "heroes".
     
    #7 Dr. Bob, Jan 29, 2003
  8. archie

    archie New Member

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    Abortion is murder period. While a person can be forgiven abortion is never right. I to would not belong to a church who would support abortion.
     
    #8 archie, Jan 29, 2003
  9. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    Amen, Dr. Bob.

    Don...I agree with what you said, except I am curious about one thing...

    You said that those who encourage a woman to have an abortion are guilty of a murderous spirit. But, you said that those who even fail to condemn someone who kills abortionists is guilty of conspiracy to murder, which is punishable by imprisonment.

    Now, I'm not defending the murder of abortionists. I would like, though, if you could either explain or clarify the different treatment that you gave the two groups.

    Maybe it was just accidental in which case my question would seem rather picky, forgive me if that is the case.
     
    #9 Pennsylvania Jim, Jan 29, 2003
  10. David Cooke Jr

    David Cooke Jr New Member

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    I wasn't comfortable taking the poll b/c I think this issue is very complicated. I think pro-life and pro-choice labels are woefully inadequete to describe the individual cases where women consider abortion.
    I bet most of us on the board detest abortion. But sometimes its like amputation of a limb- no one wants to be put in that position of having to cut off their leg to save their own life.
    I hope those of us who are die-hard pro-lifers are also die-hard contributers to adoption agencies for unplanned pregnancies and aid for women and girls in those situations.
    I hope those of us who are die hard pro-choicers realize that like it or not, the availability of safe abortions has more consequences than most people consider, and effects our perceptions of morality, personal responsibility, and the sanctity and value of life.
     
    #10 David Cooke Jr, Jan 29, 2003
  11. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    David, I don't think anyone in their right mind would condemn abortion for true medical purposes, such as the life of the mother, or a young child raped who would be seriously harmed by bearing the child.
    At least that's my opinion. Sometimes yes, I do believe the death of a child is justified, but in my poll I'm assuming people understand that I'm not talking about the very small percentage of necessary abortions, but the mass numbers of convenience abortions.
    Gina
     
    #11 Gina B, Jan 29, 2003
  12. JIMNSC

    JIMNSC New Member

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    Hope I don't offend with my opinion/belief here because none is intended. I'm "pro-life" 100%, no if's, and's or but's. God has a plan for every child that is conceived and aborting it is going against God's plan.

    How does a doctor know, or a potential mother know what God's plan is? The plan one destroys might just be a time of God testing one's faith and love.

    Life begins at conception and adults should know the risks involved with child-bearing. Aborting the child for "any" reason means the involved were'nt really ready for those risks.

    You don't have to go past the three synoptic gospels to know how Jesus feels about children. Whatever the situation, He can work it out. We just have to place our faith in Him. He's going to love a child conceived due to rape just as much as he will love one from a normal marriage.

    Yep, I guess I'm "die-hard" pro-lifer. I am also "die-hard" sold out to Jesus. You can't be a little truthful and still claim you didn't lie.

    I guess I'm not in my right mind, Gina.

    [ January 29, 2003, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: JIMNSC ]
     
    #12 JIMNSC, Jan 29, 2003
  13. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Jim, I simply suggest you familiarize yourself with some of the pregnancy complications that are out there. Such as...a child is conceived, but inplants in the fallopian tube instead of the uterus. In this case the child has zero chance of survival, as that simply isn't the place for a child to grow. Not only that, but if an abortion is not performed the fallopian tube will burst and chances are VERY high that the mother will die. My best friend went through this and came very close, passing out at home and had to be rushed to the hospital to have that whole section removed before she bled to death.
    There are other situations and methods for a pregnancy to cause problems like this, I'm naming this one because it's the one I've heard of most often. It's a choice between one definite death and the health of the mother being saved, or one definite death and one probable one.
    Gina
     
    #13 Gina B, Jan 29, 2003
  14. David Cooke Jr

    David Cooke Jr New Member

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    Gina, I really appreciate your last two replies. Abortion is such an emotional issue that people forget it is very complicated and nuanced. Thank God your friend lived. I'm sure no one wanted her baby to live more than she did. My prayers are with every woman who is in that position.
     
    #14 David Cooke Jr, Jan 29, 2003
  15. PastorGreg

    PastorGreg Member
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    It is God who opens the womb and God who closes the womb. Man NEVER has the right to usurp the place of God and kill an unborn child. Abortion is ALWAYS evil, vile, and reprehensible. As to your certain situations, Gina, there are other options, especially with the technology we have today. Why would the baby have to be intentionally killed? Could it not be removed from the womb if the mother's life is truly at stake (extremely rare at best) and every effort made to save the child? It is ALWAYS under all circumstances sin to kill an unborn child.
     
    #15 PastorGreg, Jan 29, 2003
  16. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    It is ALWAYS under all circumstances sin to kill an unborn child.

    What about ectopic pregnancies?

    What about anincephalic fetuses?

    What about failed miscarriages?
     
    #16 Johnv, Jan 29, 2003
  17. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Pastor Greg, when this happens it is quickly, in the first several weeks of pregnancy, the tube is so small it will burst that soon. The child would be smaller than the fingernail on your pinky at this time, so no, it couldn't be saved.
    Here is a link to explain what this is more.
    EC Pregnancies

    David, I just heard from that woman today. She's 4 mos. pregnant with twins right now. :D When this happened she had to have the entire ovary and everything taken out, so her chances of having another were slim, but she had one son afterwards who is now 13. She had given up on hope of another one with her reduced chances and also because she just turned 40, but now she is blessed with this. I'm VERY happy for her! [​IMG]
    Gina
     
    #17 Gina B, Jan 29, 2003
  18. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    Ectopic babies: These pregnancies do not go full term. The baby cannot grow because it is outside of the uterus and cannot get nourishment.

    Anincephalic babies: There is no reason to abort them anymore than you would abort a baby because they had blue eyes and you wanted one with brown eyes. Even when babies are not 'perfect', they are still babies and a gift from God.

    Miscarried babies: These babies will be born without aborting them. A D&C procedure is necessary after the baby is born to protect the mother against infection.

    I miscarried a set of twins. I lost one baby and the doctor wanted to abort the other one because he said it was just a matter of time before he died anyway. I said I had time to wait. After the second twin was born (the next day); I had a D&C and not before.

    Our bodies are wonderfully made and God knows what He is doing and He is good...all the time.

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
    #18 I Am Blessed 24, Jan 29, 2003
  19. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Good catch, Jim. I don't, and didn't intend to, classify them as different; it's the same murderous spirit, the same conspiracy to commit murder.
     
    #19 Don, Jan 29, 2003
  20. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus Active Member

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    Abortion is ALWAYS the killing of a human being, but, all killing is not murder. Justifiable homocide, war, defense of others, etc. A child's continued existence will result in the death of the child AND the mother vs. taking the life of the child resulting in the mother living is not murder but justifiable homicide. It is still the taking of a human life and VERY nerve wrecking but it is NOT murder. This is the only instance I know of where abortion is a viable option. The key is to remember that it is ALWAYS the taking of a human life and can only be considered when it is biblically correct to take a human life. Rape, incest, and the mother's emotional well being are NOT even close to reasonable circumstances.
     
    #20 Artimaeus, Jan 29, 2003
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