church attendance

The Bible commands faithful participation and ministry in the body of Christ. A believer who does not do that is at best disobedient ... they may not be a true believer.

 

Bob,

That is the reason I said that the pastor doesn't discipline anyone. Unfortunately, too many people think "it's the pastor's job." It's everybody's job. When someone is missing and not fulfillign their God-given role, it is not my job as the pastor to go after them. It is the job of the body to go and bring them back.

 

steveo,

considering some of the things i've heard about some churches i would gladly attend a liberal church anyday, perhaps they would be willing to stand up to the responsibilities and stick to the commission of lost and hurting people.

I am not saying the regular attendance of services isn't important, it is. HOWEVER it is not in the pastor's or anyone else's place to "discipline" ANYONE for missing one week or a year. If they are memebers they would automatically not be able to have say in anything for obvious reasons, but never disciplined.

Btw Steveo, just because one might not attend church does not mean their commitment to Christ is no longer there.

 

How does one have a "commitment to Christ" without obeying Christ? How does one have a commitment to Christ with out a commitment to his body?

Do you have any NT teachings that back up your assertions?

 

The majority of churches need to discipline themselves first by making disciples of Jesus not just students of Him. Ministry is not at a Bible study. It is done in the world where we live and work. If churches began discipling people a number would leave and others would come. People go where they feel comfortable.

 

gb...very very correct.

PastorLarry,

Obedience to Christ is many many other things than church attendence alone. There are many reasons why people just stop attending, many have deep pain issues they don't know how to cope with induced by the church or pastor. Does this exempt them from obedience to Jesus? Of course not, however the bible says do not forsake the assembling of thyselves together, and what actually constitutes an assembling?

Someone could easily be commited to Christ but not attend church, you just don't know the purposes behind the absentness.

 

If "normal" allowed them to fall away, then normal is not what is needed. The ideal norm should be that individuals in the church are prompted by God to reach out and provide discipleship to others in the body. If everyone would seek opportunities to act upon God's call to make disciples, no one would ever fall away.

For the two of you slamming SBC churches, our SBC church has taught this actively for years, and I am the product of that discipleship, and I am used by God to actively provide it for others. God is doing incredible things in our SBC church, which is one of the largest anywhere, and in which over two-thirds on our role are active members. I'm thinking that the body at large would function better, and maybe even become irresistable to the lost, if we could knock those giant chips off our shoulders!

David

 

ABSOLUTELY!!! Church is a place for teaching, preaching, fellowship, and worship, but real discipleship takes place outside the walls of the church!

 

If only my attendance counts for what I do for the church then I guess they better throw me out! Because of my son illness and my husbands attitude toward 'organized religion', I haven't been able to attend Sunday Morning church but twice since December. I've done better on Wednesday nights, but not by much.

On the other hand, I'm teaching in VBS. I keep in contact with the members of my Sunday School class(who thankfully understand my situation). If special projects come up during the week(it is only weekend things that T objects to) I'm available to help and do.

According to some of you that is not good enough. I must be in disobediance or maybe not really saved because I don't go to church every time the doors are open. Huh, my best is not good enough. Who are you to tell me that? And since when is my salvation contingent upon how often I attend services? I don't think so, and I really don't think you do either, but that is how some of you are coming across.

I think we better be careful in how we approach people about their church attendence. You might just get an earful that you didn't want to hear by telling someone that their membership is contigent upon how often they attend services.

It is a good idea to ask in a loving way if there is an obstacle to church attendence that the other church member can help to remove. It is NOT a good idea to approach it from the notion that people are either in disobedience to God or are not really saved if they don't appear regularly in church.

Lack of CHURCH attendence does not mean that people aren't fellowshiping with others who love the Lord. They may simply be fellowshiping in different way than attending preaching. I agree that Christians NEED the company of one another in order to grow. I don't agree that is HAS to be in a traditional church service.

 

Steveo, I sent you a pm, let me know what you think.

John

 

Yes, but full obedience cannot be had without the regular attendance.

Then they need to go to the offending party and get it fixed. AGain, that is biblical obedience.

The regularly scheduled services of the church. Why are we trying to parse it to mean something else?

This is a whole lot more simple than most of you seem to be making it. Christ commands participation in the body. That is what he gifted you for. You should be using it. If someone is wilfully absenting themselves from church there is something wrong.

They cannot be committed to Christ without being committed to the body. That is simple and it is biblical. IF someone is absent, we go and find out why.

 

"Normal" means people doing what Christ commands. That is what I mean by normal. If someone has been attending and participating and then falls away, they are not "normal." And people in teh church should be reaching out to them. It shouldn't be my job as a pastor. Hopefully before it ever gets to me, that person has been contacted I would love to never hear about it because people int eh body are doing the "work of the ministry" that I have trained them to do (Eph 4:11-15). When all the pieces work, the body grows. When a piece drops out and doesn't do their job, it puts stress on the rest of the body. It is not normal.

 

I have to confess ... this doesn't make a lot of sense to me. By what NT passage are you defining "real discipleship" as that which takes place outside the church?? I have never seen any reference to that in the NT or OT for that matter. Discipleship takes place inside the church and outside the church. Discipleship is a lifestyle.

 

Who said this? I haven't seen anyone here say anything remotely similar to this. Very clearly, what we are talking about is willful absentia, not someone who is sick. I think common sense should be the rule of the day here more than extreme marginalizing. We have people who are members here who haven't been in church less than 5 times since I have been here. They are in nursing homes suffering from dementia. We have people with other health problems, or who are caretakers who aren't able to be here. Those thing so different than what we are talking about that it shouldn't have been confused.

If a person willfully absents themselves from the body of Christ, they are either disobedient or unsaved. I say unsaved because people who fall away are not truly saved, according to numerous passages in Scripture. In these cases, we need to let the Scripture rule, rather than our emotions.

 

I agree with everything in your post. My point is simply that what you are defining as normal is not the norm, but the ideal. If we are living the way Christ intends, people will not fall away. And you are correct that it is not your job as pastor to carry out the work of relationship-building and discipleship within your church. That responsibility belongs to every believer, and if that ever becomes "normal" our churches and the entire world will never be the same. It is my pastor's job to equip me to minister to others. It is not his job to babysit.

To answer your next post directed to me, I use the entire book of Acts as the defense of my view of discipleship. First century believers were not bound by the walls of FBC Ephesus. They met constantly and lived out the Great Commission as a way of life. I agree with you, it is a lifestyle, but I don't live at church (although it feels that way sometimes!). I evangelize as a way of life through normal life situations, and I disciple other believers in the same way.

I think you and I actually agree across the board, but we are arguing semantics. I am not a pastor, but a lay person who has built my life around ministry, and it is my job to intentionally build up and equip other believers in my realm of influence as a way of life.

 

If my posts have prompted that statement in any way, you have missed my point. Believe me, I spend more time ministering through our church than I spend at my vocation! But Christianity is more than going to church. Church is a means to equip us for a lifestyle that should be lived every moment, regardless of our physical location. There is no place I would rather be than at Prestonwood, or in one of the churches with whom I work in Romania, but my life is wasted if I fail to live what I've learn when I walk out the door.

 

quote: The Bible commands faithful participation and ministry in the body of Christ. A believer who does not do that is at best disobedient ... they may not be a true believer.

Did I misunderstand this? Because this is what says to me that my efforts aren't good enough. It questions my obidience to Christ and even my salvation.

You and I also disagree about what 'continuing in the doctrine of the apostles' means. To me it means they held to the beliefs they were taught by the apostles and not that they went to church on Sunday morning and night and Wednesday night. There were those who lived together in sort of a commune, but I doubt that would work today(we Baptist like to argue to much).

I want a direct quote that says I have to attend church on someone elses schedule to be a Christian.

Now about that earful. Do you really want to hear about the hippocritical attitudes of your fellow pastors? Do you really want to deal with the attitude of your best giving(I'm talking about money here) church members who think that because they come to every service and tithe their ten percent that they can go out and deal decietfully with other in their business dealings? Do you want to deal with the little old lady that sits on the fourth pew from the back and tells visitors that they can't sit there because ________? Or tells them that they are disturbing the service because they open a peppermint? Or how 'bout asking the ladies(and men) to refrain from wearing strong perfumes because there are other members who get such bad allergy attacks or migraines when they are exposed to them that they are sick for days?

Don't start disiplining people for not coming till you have fixed the problems they are not coming about. The above are just a few example of things that have happened in my own church. I can give you more if you want.

As far as simply purging membership rolls, I don't have a problem with it. But every effort should be made to contact those involved to make sure that it is not a lengthy but temporary absense. There are those who may have a two year contract to work somewhere else and then they are coming back. Or a college student who is seeking education in another place for a year or two.

The thing is, you can't lump everyone who doesn't come to church into the same ball. You have to allow for circumstances.