counseling

BTW, in light of my preceding post, I want you to know that I think you and your husband did the right thing. You were up front with the kids and you informed the pastor who had a need to know. You demonstrated good wisdom.

 

Thanks for saying what I meant, paidagogos.

 

Oh, I almost forgot!

Disclaimer: Although I referred to court cases, laws and gave general opinions on the law in my preceding posts, nothing that I have said may be construed as legal advice. I am not an attorney. For legal advice, one is advised to consult an attorney.

 

As an addendum, pastors, who are concerned about legal liabilities from counseling, should be up front in representing themselves as pastors doing counseling as part of their pastoral function. They should not try to establish themselves as professional counselors (The little ego boost just isn't worth the risk ). Also, they should be well informed of the mandatory reporting laws for their respective states.

 

you forgot...

"offer void where prohibited," and "tax, tag and title not included."

 

It bothers me that Christians don’t have faith in the Scriptures. We trust what Scripture teaches about eternal salvation in the life hereafter but we won’t apply it to our daily problems in this life. Do we believe God “hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue (II Peter 1:3)?” Do we practice it?

If we really believe II Peter 1:3, then the pastor, who thoroughly knows the Word of God, should be the best qualified counselor. What is the basis of our faith in the professional psychologist? They have a dismal record of success. Research seems to indicate that people in therapy report improvement at about the same rate or less as those who undergo no therapy. What do you conclude?

 

Yeah, I'm getting old and forg........uh.....well, what I saying now?

Anyway.........Happy Thanksgiving to you!

 

I know a couple Christian counselors that I highly recommend..And Yes I agree with you about being candid at the beginning, that is what I have always told my teens..

They can tell me anything, but if it serious enough, i will have to go to their parents.
I also encourage them to come along with me, and I will be there for support while THEY tell their parents.

 

On the other hand, any Bible-believing pastor ought to recognize his obligation to the parents especially if they are members of his flock. God put parents in charge of their children. In order to fulfill their Biblical parental role, they must be knowledgeable. It seems you are playing the pastor’s obligation in confidence to the counselee against the obligation to inform the parents. Counseling is not a confessional; there is no absolute commitment to confidence.

Biblically, the bonds of confidence are not as strong as you seem to think. This is a weed rooted in the muddled thinking of the Roman Catholic confessional, secular psychology and psychiatry.

Most certainly not with a promise of absolute confidence! Sometimes it is a Biblical mandate to break the confidence and require the counselee to confess his sin to another that he has wronged.

So, what do you hope to accomplish through counseling? A secular psychologist would have no problem with the homosexual thoughts. In fact, he would encourage him to pursue them and establish his own identity as a homosexual. Would you recommend a Christian psychologist? What do they have to offer more than the same old secular pabulum with the most objectionable parts eliminated and a few Bible verses interspersed here and there? From a Biblical standpoint, who is more qualified than a Bible-believing pastor?

There seems to be an explicit faith in professional counseling (i.e. the Cult of the Expert). What does this professional counselor have more than a knowledgeable pastor? Techniques? Methods? Specialized knowledge? Nope! If he does, then I would like to know specifically what they are because I have missed them entirely in my years of graduate work in psychology and counseling. In fact, I would say the average professional Christian psychologist, so-called, has much less knowledge of Scripture than a good pastor. So, why would you refer this guy to counseling?

Also, there is a real problem with the idea that a person with homosexual thoughts needs professional counseling. After all, homosexuality lusts and behaviors are choices and sin as much as heterosexual desires and behaviors are choices and sin outside of marriage. Sexual desire for another, other than one’s spouse, is sin. Christ called it lust. Why is homosexual lust a special case that needs so-called professional counseling? If a pastor preaches and counsels against heterosexual sin, then he is equally qualified to preach and counsel against homosexual sin.

My point is that believing homosexuality needs special professional counseling is a throwback to the time when secular psychology thought homosexuality was an aberrant behavior. Now, it is accepted and you won’t find it listed in DSM-IV. So, why do Christians hold onto old outdated secular thinking? Why don’t we make a clean break and become eminently Biblical? Homosexuality, both lust and deeds, is sin and needs Biblical confrontation from the pulpit and in individual counseling by God-fearing pastors. What more needs to be said? </font>[/QUOTE]Amen....couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Why wouldn't it be legal? A pastor has the privilege of minister-congregant confidentiality, the same as doctor-patient confidentality. Is someone comes to him on a spiritual issue, then, within reason, it should remain private.

 

BTW, in light of my preceding post, I want you to know that I think you and your husband did the right thing. You were up front with the kids and you informed the pastor who had a need to know. You demonstrated good wisdom. [/QB][/QUOTE]


Thank you so much for your encouragement. I appreciate it alot. Earlier I had been posting at the same time as yours and didnt read your post until later. I agree wholeheartedly with what you've written.

 

I wont speak for what the pastor should have done.

I will speak from what I was taught to do by my mentor.

For liability reasons (sue happy society) I make it clear I am not a "professional" counsellor. I have a form agreement that outlines that I will share Biblical answers to help the person(s) and will pray for and with them, but I may refer them to a professional if I feel that I am in over my head. I will respect confidentiality as much as legally and responsibly possible.

If a minor asks for counselling ( more than just a q and a time...) or needs ongoing counselling, I will inform the parents that there is such a need. Unless it is a dangerous or illegal situation, I will respect the confidentiality of the minor child. I will encourage them to share with their parents.

If it is a legal or dangerous situation, I will inform the parents as soon as possible right in front of the child but again protecting the confidentiality as much as possible.

 

Why wouldn't it be legal? A pastor has the privilege of minister-congregant confidentiality, the same as doctor-patient confidentality. Is someone comes to him on a spiritual issue, then, within reason, it should remain private. </font>[/QUOTE]There is no unconditional confidentiality in doctor-patient, lawyer-client, and counselor-counselee relationships. This is myth. In each instance, there are exceptions. Some states have mandatory reporting requirements of specific disclosures for certain professions, including pastors. This varies from state to state. The professional confidentiality issue is under debate and scrutiny in some states.

What do you mean by within reason? This is a nebulous standard. Biblically, a pastor must insist on disclosure in some situations. Too often confidentiality and appeal for privacy simply serve as a cloak for one’s sin. Biblically, the offender must go to the offended, confess and ask for forgiveness.

 

If this post was directed at me then:

Did I ever say that it was illegal? NOPE! I gave a hypothetical situation. That's a big difference. </font>[/QUOTE]Simmer down, 1611! My post was in response to the opening post, which asked (and I quote) "Is this legal?" Wasnt intended for you at all, so please dont be so defensive.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

Hmmmmm........

I must conclude that people have sin in their lives that isn't being dealt with, either by them or their secular counselors. That would explain the parallel success rates.

The only lives I've seen truly changed have been changed by Christ. Not by the person, and not by a secular counselor. I should add that they won't find help from a Pastor either if he is counseling in order to feel important or powerful. He must counsel from the Word of God, and allow God to do the work.

Pastor Mark.

 

Never said there was. You're correct.

exactly what you referred to above.

The issue of the OP is not one that falls into that category.

Agreed, but again, the topic of the OP is not one that falls in this category.

 

Hmmmmm........

I must conclude that people have sin in their lives that isn't being dealt with, either by them or their secular counselors. That would explain the parallel success rates.

The only lives I've seen truly changed have been changed by Christ. Not by the person, and not by a secular counselor. I should add that they won't find help from a Pastor either if he is counseling in order to feel important or powerful. He must counsel from the Word of God, and allow God to do the work.

Pastor Mark. </font>[/QUOTE]there are times when there is a physiological concern that should be addressed by a physycian. There are a number of "professionally" trained counsellors who happen to be Christians. We need to be careful to try to assess each case as it is presented. I would agree that most situations are rooted in spiritual concerns, but we need to be aware that some medical conditions can cause problems in the psychological area also.

(Based on a true story) Sleep Apnea causes a person (and their spouse) to become very tired, both are sleep deprived, argumantative and on the edge of divorce. I asked some pointed questions based on health issues (got them from a M.D.) to determine if there was reason to believe there mnay be an underlying medical issue. I referred the man and his wife to their Dr. to discuss sleep problems. He has been using a CPAP machine for about a year, and with the prayer and Bible study we have been having, they are on their way to an improved marital relationship. Not to mention, he doesn't sllep through my sermons anymore.