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#2 THE RAPTURE

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Ed Edwards, Mar 20, 2005.

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#2 THE RAPTURE

  1. physical literal

    21 vote(s)
    80.8%

  2. spiritual literal

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%

  3. physical figurative

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  4. spiritual figurative

    4 vote(s)
    15.4%

  5. Apathy &/or Ignorance: I don't know or I don't care

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    One of the most persistent Chrisitan Doctrines is the
    doctrine of the Rapture of Christians. When/where is
    the rapture of whom? Use scriptures, but don't think i'll
    understand them the same as you did. Is the scripute
    to be understood physically literal, spiritual literal,
    physical figurative, or spiritual figurative?
     
    #1 Ed Edwards, Mar 20, 2005
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    This is the main rapture scripture:

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (HCSB = The Holman Christian Standard Bible):

    We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who have no hope.
    14 Since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, in the same way God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
    15 For we say this to you by a revelation from the Lord: We who are still alive at the Lord's coming will certainly have no advantage over those who have fallen asleep.
    16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel's voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
    17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will always be with the Lord.
    18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.



    1 Thessalonians 4:17 (The Latin Vulgate):

    deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur
    cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

    This Latin Vulgate is were we get the "caught up" as
    the "rapture". In Latin the form of "rapture" that belongs
    in this sentence is "rapiermur" having to do with case, number,
    gender, etc, etc.

    Is the 'rapiemur'
    to be understood physical literal, spiritual literal,
    physical figurative, or spiritual figurative?
     
    #2 Ed Edwards, Mar 20, 2005
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    QUOTE]Response posted by OldRegular:
    Tee hee can't win an argument with
    a rapture believer, so he argues with
    himself     [/QUOTE]

    I have noted on several threads that it is as useless to discuss Scripture with a follower of Darby/Scofield or possibly Bullinger as shoveling "sand' against the tide!
     
    #3 OldRegular, Mar 21, 2005
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The truth finally comes out. :D The rapture doctrine of dispensationalism is derived from: a Roman Catholic bible?????? :D [​IMG]
     
    #4 OldRegular, Mar 21, 2005
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    EE

    Your poll is faulty. Are you a Democrat? You should have prefixed that word? from the Roman Catholic Vulgate with pretrib.
     
    #5 OldRegular, Mar 21, 2005
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Tee hee, you remind me of the slave girl Paul encountered
    in Acts 16:16-18.

    Again, i've delineated the differences between Scofield's
    doctrine and mine. To say i teach Darby/Scofield is a
    logical error: Argumeniium ad Hominem.
    I never read any Bullinger. You seem to know the teaching
    of many men (or is it a woman?), care to relate some of
    his teachings?
     
    #6 Ed Edwards, Mar 21, 2005
  7. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    You err at several levels:

    The name is not the substance. The name
    'rapture' comes from the Latin language.
    The meaning of the rapture comes from the
    Holy Scripture in what every language you (all)
    might be profcient.
     
    #7 Ed Edwards, Mar 21, 2005
  8. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist New Member

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    Ed Edwards, if I understand the intention of the post, you were inquiring about the nature of the "Rapture," not when it will occur. Am I correct? As to the nature of the event described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, it is evidently literal. Compare this with Philippians 3:20, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10. As to the timing of the "Rapture," I do not agree with you that it will precede the Great Tribulation.
     
    #8 Primitive Baptist, Mar 21, 2005
  9. Michaelt

    Michaelt Member
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    So what I'm getting so far out of this is that some of you folks didn't get enough bickering and arguing in the prior rapture post, so you wanted to pursue another bickering,arguing session by making another rapture post...

    And to what end?
     
    #9 Michaelt, Mar 21, 2005
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I have noted on several threads that it is as useless to discuss Scripture with a follower of Darby/Scofield or possibly Bullinger as shoveling "sand' against the tide! So to answer your question I will no longer discuss Scripture with a known dispensationalist. [​IMG]
     
    #10 OldRegular, Mar 21, 2005
  11. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Ed,

    Your poll was poorly constructed. The amills don't see any discrete rapture other than the second coming. "Figurative rapture" is a poor description of the nonrapturist position.
     
    #11 Charles Meadows, Mar 21, 2005
  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    [QUOTEYour poll is faulty. Are you a Democrat? You should have prefixed that word? from the Roman Catholic Vulgate with pretrib.[/QUOTE]

    There is no one here that dismisses Scipture as religious dung. The above are all your quotes from this one page only. You say: "I will no longer discuss Scripture with a known dispensationalist. You have not used one Scripture verse on this page yet. You aren't discussing Scripture at all. You are throwing verbal garbage at Ed and others because their belief system is different than yours. Usually when a person can't defend their own position they resort to verbal abuse. That is where you are at. It is a very poor debate tactic. It simply means the obvious--you have lost. You have nothing more to say on the subject, thus you throw your garbage at others instead. This is not acceptable.
    DHK
     
    #12 DHK, Mar 21, 2005
  13. carlaimpinge

    carlaimpinge New Member

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    I have noted on several threads that it is as useless to discuss Scripture with a follower of Darby/Scofield or possibly Bullinger as shoveling "sand' against the tide! So to answer your question I will no longer discuss Scripture with a known dispensationalist. [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]Now there's another mouthful of condenscending obnoxious slander and falsehood. :eek:

    The SIMPLE, STRIKING, and DEMONSTRABLE REASON is the Holy Spirit "stumps" him and his teachings everytime in the Book.

    [​IMG]
     
    #13 carlaimpinge, Mar 21, 2005
  14. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    You bailed out last time we got in a good discussion. You ran into some verses you were unwilling to provide a cogent explanation from. And you have the audacity to accuse us of treating Scripture like dung. That is completely inappropriate and you know it. It really is sad to see you stoop to that level.
     
    #14 Pastor Larry, Mar 21, 2005
  15. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Primitive Baptist: "As to the timing of the "Rapture," I do not agree with you that it will precede the Great Tribulation.//

    I respect your opinion. I could respect your opinion more
    if you could find a positive way to to express it.
    ("i do not agree" is not postive). A committment would be
    nice also.

    This topic has two functions. The #2 indicates it is a
    continuation of the full topic at this location:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/3/2800.html?

    As such, we will all express our own opinion/understanding of the Bible.

    Additionally i made a poll of it. Quite frankly i hope it will
    show most bapists take a very literal/physcial approach to the
    prophecy.

    I do not see a conflict with the two goals.
    Can we then agree there is coming a physical & literal
    Rapture/resurrection?
     
    #15 Ed Edwards, Mar 21, 2005
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTEYour poll is faulty. Are you a Democrat? You should have prefixed that word? from the Roman Catholic Vulgate with pretrib.</font>[/QUOTE]
    There is no one here that dismisses Scipture as religious dung. The above are all your quotes from this one page only. You say: "I will no longer discuss Scripture with a known dispensationalist. You have not used one Scripture verse on this page yet. You aren't discussing Scripture at all. You are throwing verbal garbage at Ed and others because their belief system is different than yours. Usually when a person can't defend their own position they resort to verbal abuse. That is where you are at. It is a very poor debate tactic. It simply means the obvious--you have lost. You have nothing more to say on the subject, thus you throw your garbage at others instead. This is not acceptable.
    DHK     [/QUOTE]

    I have posted Scripture to prove that the pretrib removal of the Church is unbiblical. carlaimpinge called it religious dung, you call it garbage. Please don't pontificate about verbal abuse. Every amillennialist on this forum is continually subjected to verbal abuse by dispensationalists. That is the reason that I state: I will no longer discuss Scripture with a known dispensationalist.
     
    #16 OldRegular, Mar 21, 2005
  17. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Quite frankly i hope it will
    show most bapists take a very literal/physcial approach to the
    prophecy.

    I don't think anyone would debate that. Most baptists do.

    The question is whether or not the literal prophecy stance is the best one. Yes it makes for a nice concrete scheme to believe in - but I don't think it best represents what scripture says.
     
    #17 Charles Meadows, Mar 21, 2005
  18. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    I'll still discuss scripture with dispensationalists.

    I really have no problem with dispensationalism. In my mind the literalist approach to scripture (if the plain sense makes sense then don't look for another sense) is well-meaning and born out of a desire to be faithful to the scriptures. That being said I still disagree with it.
     
    #18 Charles Meadows, Mar 21, 2005
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You bailed out last time we got in a good discussion. You ran into some verses you were unwilling to provide a cogent explanation from. And you have the audacity to accuse us of treating Scripture like dung. That is completely inappropriate and you know it. It really is sad to see you stoop to that level. </font>[/QUOTE]We were having a civil discussion that I found very enlightening until you questioned if I believed in the Second Coming at which point I concluded further discussion would be unproductive. It was not I that used the expression religious dung but carlaimpinge on the previous Rapture thread, dated March 20, I believe.
     
    #19 OldRegular, Mar 21, 2005
  20. carlaimpinge

    carlaimpinge New Member

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    The posts are plain on the 19th page of the 1st Rapture thread. The RELIGIOUS DUNG referred to Old Reg's REDUNDANCE, not Scripture. He TRIED to turn it around by DISTORTING the statement, SAYING that I called scripture religious dung.

    I explained it was his REDUNDANCE. He knew that.

    That's the WAY this "brother" perverts any statement in discussion.
     
    #20 carlaimpinge, Mar 21, 2005
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