Old Regular Baptist

I called you didn't answer,
I knocked, you didn't open,
I was sick, you visited me not
I was hungry, you fead me not,

Lord when, as often as you did it to one of these little ones you did it unto me.

Again we change the words "if any man".

 

43

Brother Bob I am 43, looking forward to being a Papaw in January, my 2nd oldest daughter and her husband are expecting a little boy both of them are members at Blessed Hope Old Regular Baptist in Adair County Ky near Liberty(largest town) this church has a lot of young people attending services there, our other churches have young also, Mt.Zion has the fewest, it was an older church which was originally in the New Salem, it was called Little Maudie until Bro.Newt Vanderpool had a dream to change their name to Mt.Zion, I was the moderator there when the split with NNS came about over grape juice and wine, I was raised up in Pleasant View, Little Edna,Little Rebecca, Pilgrim Home churches mainly, though we visted different churches mostly in the NNS, The Lord spoke to me when I was 16 years old but I had many impressions prior to that, I went through a travail and had felt the burdens lifted when I was seventeen, I gave my hand to the Pleasant View Church and was baptised that evening in Oct 1980 started preaching several months later, I have been Blessed to have been able to have preached in churches, In the NNS,Indian Bottom,Old Indian Bottom,New Salem(I was a member in this association at one time)Old Friendship,Sardis,Philadelphia,Union,Mud River,ThortonUnion,Mountain,Mountain Liberty,Bethel,Sovereign Grace,Mountain Valley,Sandlick,Northwestern,Primitive Baptist and United Baptist churches I have never preached in The Friendship or the othersides of Mud River or Mountain, Little Dove and Cumberland no longer exist, there are other Regular Baptist associations I would like to vist, I also would like to note that what ever association I was in ,I kept their order concerning these matters, and I have seperated my service when required by them so as to keep down confusion, and not break the order of the association I was a member of. I have over all been well recieved through out these groups, that does not mean that we all agreed on everything, if we did , we would not be Baptist so I am going on 27 years, I have been an Old Regular Baptist but a christian first, but I love the old school baptist and I don't believe one church is as good as anthor, if there were no Old Regulars, I would be an old time United or Primitive, I could not see me belonging to a modern church even if it was called Baptist after I have felt and seen the things that I have, I know of no other churches any closer to the New Testament pattern than these, and most of our disagreements are over scriptures that are open to different views by the way they are worded, I myself have changed my views on some of these verses after being better enlightened on them, but at one time would have debated with the best of them that what I saw in them was right, but now I am more concerned with preaching them the way that God intended them to be preached ,rather than to try to hold on to some pet doctrine out of pride, if I preach a doctrine or system that is wrong I would rather be corrected, then to continue in some error ,just not to hurt some brothers feeling, I believe the Sovereign Grace Association's Churches preach a God honoring doctrine that comes from his record, we are not fatalist nor arminian nor are we perfect, we try to keep good order, showing mercy when we can, but passing judgements when needed. I have seen the many errors in the Old Baptist and with some of their associations and have tried to correct some of those errors, there has been many things said about me, some true, some lies, I am not as hard as some on that side say(mainly my enemies) and I still have many friends even in your correspondence , who if asked would tell you the truth about Mike Slone and some of those brothers even hold different views from me, but they will not lie on me, and for that I am thankful, I was hurt tremendously by some in the NNS and it was not over doctrine as they would like people to believe, nor was it really over communion practices, it had to do with association politics ,votes for moderator and jealously, the wine in communion was an excuse, they sent a commitee on me one time because a Sister had passed away that had been given a letter in an arm to form a new church her name was read because she was on the letter, it was also noted she had died, before the church was organized. It was not my fault she had passed away, the letter was read as it had been written prior to her death, our churches were stripped of their rights to even debate in their own association, they were told to keep the Bible out of it they knew what they believed, I gave a speech one time and everyone was allowed to give cat calls, interupt etc.... with Brother Roy not saying a word to reprove them or ask them to keep the rules of decorum, at which time my mother got up and spoke her peace, and told them about their secret plots being made outside the building and even young children hearing them plotting against thier brothers ,out of order also but no worse than they. The speech was asking them to reprint their own order on Arminian Doctrine and that of their sister associations, afterwards Bro.Walter Akers told me that this side of Old Regular Baptist [NNS]had already departed so far from the original, it would be nothing but trouble to ask them to return to the old doctrine and old ways, and what I needed was a good history book with the old letters in it to study and read, he sent me the New Salem records, and said wait till you are older, they resent a young brother telling them they are wrong even if it is true, but even through it all, I have always loved them and still believe the Old Baptist Family to be the Church of God, nor do I blame everyone for the politics of one association, that since Brother Baxter ,seemed to loose most of its ability to reason, and begin to try to govern the churches, which makes it an illegal body, assuming power not granted to an association, I recieved a call just this week from a brother ,who said that he feels the Old Regular's would do much better without associations, which leave agreements and try to lord over God's heritage. Bro.Slone

 

Hi Mike:
You are well learned for a 43 year old. Your voice makes you sound older also, unless you get hoarse like me after preaching.

Guess what I preached on today. Every hear of "predestination".

 

Voice

I get hoarse like you, the Blessed Hope Church is in a area where there is no, lined singing, so it has been very different , for our congergation, most of them were not raised in an Old Regular Baptist Church and they are just learning to line, for that I am thankful, I still do alot of the lined singing, and some weekends, I have preached three to five sermons, so I sound different, I am thankful just to have a voice, the old moderator at Pleasant View, Alex Collier lost his singing voice and can only sing at certain times, he was a very gifted singer, and one of the best I ever heard at doing church work, growing up I heard some of the best old time singers around, Ivan Amburgey, Buddy Carty, Harlos Hall the Edward brothers, I still can remember some of Brother Ivan's sermons, I was only five at the time, but his preaching was very simple at times and he had a wonderful voice, he now belongs at the Little Dove in the Indian Bottom. Predestination is a wonderful doctrine if kept in the limits of God's word, but I have seen some trying to use it, to justify their sins(not ORB)and try to make God the author of sin, which is very hurtful to the cause, I find no such thing in the record of God nor do I believe that God predestinated the fall of Adam, I believe he foreknew the fall of Adam, and purposed to save the believing part of Adam's posterity through the election of grace, , that Christ is the Testator for the seed of faith .Take care for now, John Calvin(kidding) Bro.Mike Slone

 

I doubt if I preached it just like you would have it Mike. I preached it ,the call has gone out to all men, as in when Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me, also, come unto me all ye ends of the earth and be ye saved for I am God and besides me there is none other, and you must believe first, then you are confromed to the image of His Son, as was predestinated for the believers, Which means to become Christlike, then justified and Glorified inwardly and in the resurrection outwardly. I also preached the plan of God was predestinated. I emphasised that "you must believe" or you will die in your sins. I preached that God is everlasting to everlasting and knows the beginning from the end, that He know who will believe and who will not. I preached that He is outside of time and has already seen our death and our resurrection, but because He knows does not mean that He cause us to believe or disbelieve that He gave us that same choice that He gave Adam but that He already knows whether we will believe in Christ or not.

Predestination is a tricky subject to preach, if you go too far one way then you make God partial. If you go too far the other way then you preach that man can save himself. You can look at people's faces and see if they are getting the message and all that were in the house today, were alighten and happy. I came home feeling good for once. It is not always that I come home feeling that way.

Calvin wouldn't claim me or I him. He was responsible for too many people losing their lives.

I know what I preached is different than what you believe but I guess the difference is I put the belief first for I do believe the dead in sin can hear.

Mike, have you ever thought about when Adam and Eve eat of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, from that day forward man knew good and evil and too know good, you would have to know there is a God for that is the only place good came from. And we are multiplied Adam. To say the dead do not know anything is to deny the Bible. I will speak of my own experience and when I was a sinner, I knew it.

I know Ivan, we are not friends or anything, but have heard him several times. Doubt that He has heard me, but I sing in Brother Hiram Adkins funeral and the moderator of Indian Bottom, Brother Elwood and his Assistant Brother Fields sat up on the stand with us. Brother Ivan lived around Fleming Neon, for I saw him at the High School one night, when my grandchild was graduating.

 

predestination

I never had any doubt that you preached it different than I would. I would preach it different than John Calvin myself, I was just having a little fun at your expense, I can't help it, original sin and all, please forgive me!! Brother Ivan and the Indian Bottom are different on several issues, from my home church.That is one reason we never joined them, but there is a lot of good brothers and sisters in that association.I think the other associations should have restricted their communion with them,but continued to preach with them and maintained some type of communication, they are now larger than Union or New salem and appear to have quite a few young ministers, some appear to be studying and searching the scriptures, which I feel is a very postive sign.Brother Mike

 

Yea, I agree. We had a meeting, which included them at the Old Beaver Church, trying to restore correspondence but the double married preachers, still stood in our way. At that time the one who purchased their association building, was still with them and had a lot of influence. I don't want to mention his name on here, but if they had never put him up to preach the introductory sermon, I don't think there would of been a split. He has since passed away, and he was from over here where I live, but ended up over there because of coal business, I think. I personally wish we could work something out, for we have things among us that is as bad as anything they have, as far as I know. People's heads get hard after a split, and to get back together is almost an impossibility. I think they are good people myself, but figure the leaders think I am a hard head, but really I just want to follow order. Hope you have a good Christmas with your family and that all goes well with that grandbaby that is on the way.

 

Blessed Hope Old Regular Baptist web pages

I have been working on a more condensed history, for the History Page,mostly following and tracing the Sovereign Grace Association's orgins and history, but it will be awhile before its done, a new updated history of the Regular Baptist may be in the works eventually.Elder Wesely Yonts has one called the History of the Old Time Baptist of America, its mostly associations from the Primitives and Regulars and the Uniteds it gives brief history on the association he could find out about. I think it is still in print. Bro. Mike Slone

 

I am on the committe for collecting all the History on the Sardis Association and putting it in the Pikeville Library and the Belfry Library. I have not did a lot myself personally for we have our retired Clerk on the committee also (Brother Ralph WE Varney) and he is doing most of the work. We are trying to get a minute for every year since 1893 and He told me last Sunday or one before that he thought the Perrigan History would be on record also. I am supposed to get a dvd because I am on the committe when it is all finished. I hope to post it on my site if I have room. I may have to buy a site.

Thanks Bro Mike for the info on Convenant theology. I did some study on it and it seems to be pretty big. Someone ask me if I was one and I really didn't know what to say for I do believe there was a church under the Law and it came up out of the wilderness and Jesus used the remnant to set up the bodily Church or "His". Also, there are several scripture that shows they twain were made one.

 

Covenant theology

Brother Bob, You would be considered under that category, with some modification on certain points, Regular Baptist theology was developed from those positions we are not dispensationalist, we would only hold to two,law and grace some might consider three the first in the garden and before the law, all Old Regular's are amillenial, though we believe in Last Day theology and a realized millenium, the main theological differences between old Regular's is when does regeneration start, at the hearing of the voice of the Son of God which brings life, enabling the sinner to believe to justification bring about repentence, and then believing the Gospel, which brings life and immortality to light , the hearing is the same as the Grace of God that bringeth salvation, the working of his mighty power, hearing the Word of truth the Gospel of your salvation,(we belive that these two terms are nouns refering to Christ not the preached word because it says in whom(pro noun)also after ye believed,ye were sealed with that Holy spirt of promise, this would be the same as a begotting or a quickening vs regeneration or life starting after one believes, that what the division was over does one have life before they are born or after, there are brothers in the New Salem and the Union that hold to the Bethel position, some of the leaders in those associations told me the first split should never occured and they do feel it should be rehashed seeing the ones who brought the trouble are either dead and in the Union they left after they caused the Spilt, and that the Old Regular Baptist would be a lot stronger if our divisons never happened.The scriptures sometimes read differently, like he that believeth and is baptised shall be saved vs he that believeth hath everlasting life it is our understandings of these that led to the split along with light and life. brother Slone

 

Yea, and both sides on the Light has some points. Light that lighteth everyman that cometh into the world. If that was eternal life it would be Universalism.
The other side of the coin is Jesus is "the Light" and if you have Jesus then you have "the Light", so you are saved. So, I see an argument on both sides.

I believe in both, I think it is speaking of two different types of light. One that gives eternal life, the other teaching a man that he is a sinner.

 

Primitive and Old Regulars

The split that happened between Mates Creek and Sardis, I have been corrected it was not a split between Regulars and Primitives but a split in the Regular Baptist with one side latter taking the name Regular Primitive to say they were the original Regular Baptist, the truth be known neither side preached the doctrine of the original, look at the Philadelphia Confession and you will understand my point.All Primitive Baptist are not Amillenial according to Hassell, neither do they all wash feet. The Old Regular's wash feet and are Amillenial and have excluded those who are not, the Little Collie Church was dropped from the Thorton Union because of premillenialism.Gospel Regeneration was never an accepted doctrine of the Regulars or Primitives but found its way into the Uniteds, some of the Indian Bottom advocate it, but those ministers came from the United, If they believe that God can't reach anyone outside the gospel why do the oppose the use of missionaries?I also have trouble with God needs to send man to help save these people but the devil over there working sending them to hell , without man's aid, God has more power than the devil, further more he quicken whomsoever he will, there are people saved without ever hearing the Gospel ,if you don 't believe me visit some of the modern churches, they have people that profess Christ but whats coming from the stand is not the gospel,REV 14:6 speaks of an angel that preaches the everlasting gospel, Old Regular Baptist believe that the gospel should be preached but that regeneration is by the operation of the Holy Ghost, I knew a blind and deaf Sister in the Philadelphia Association that rejoiced in the Lord and would lean against the wall to feel the vibrations during the meeting, God can speak to us inwardly and outwardly, there is a spirit in man, that God imparts understanding to.He is the only one I know who can talk to the dead and give a hearing to(hearing by the Word of God Christ)that life and immortality can be brought to life, and faith(gospel faith ) can be recieved, and the righteousness of God is revealed.Note there are different factions of primitive baptist or primitvist baptist they have most things in common but differences exist even with in there own groups.Old regular,old line primitive,old united, absoluters,regular primitive,regular united.Bro. Mike

 

Col 1:23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

Light

Bro.Bob, there is also gospel light, the Bethel believe that light recieved is life, some of the Mud River held that light manifested was life, this was because they restrict the verse, that lighteth everyman that cometh into the world to be the church world, not universal world, but I agree with you if light manifested saved and light came into the the world and it lighteth everyman universally, all would be saved, but it is a difference in how the brothers understand the same verses, I believe that light has come into world,and this is the condemnation of the world. The other verse I have yet to understand it as the Church World, it is possible that I may be wrong, but I looked at as Christ manifested, I believe Christ is Light and Is Life so in that since if you have one you have the other, I don't believe that some of the Mud River believe that Christ is ever manifested to unbelievers nor do I understand the Little Zion association of Regular Baptist to believe that anything is ever presented to the non-elect they are simply passed over, some Primitives hold that the outward call of the Gospel is all thats manifested, but most Regulars hold to be unbelief there had to be something manifested to believe, to draw back there had to be something to draw back from,to recieve not the love of the truth, it had to be manifested, nor do we hold that this contradicts election, but leaves the non-elect in a state where they are inexcusable and are the direct author of their own sins and are justly condemned for they would not come to the light, and they can come to something that is not there. Bro.Slone

 

But it says "lest" their deed be reproved. To me that is saying they have a chance.

I don't know if I ask you or not but when Adam and Eve eat of the Tree of Knowledge, from that time on man knows good and man knows evil. It seems to me that it is impossible to know good without knowing something about God, for God is "good". There is none good saving the Father. Your thoughts?

 

I gotta lay down a while Bro Mike. My legs are killing me. Leave me your answer and I will read it.

 

Brother Bob I think even the light of nature would teach one that there is a God, but on Adam and Eve all have not sinned after the simlutude of Adams transgression, they don't come to the light because they love darkness rather than light, they recieved not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved,had they recieved it, they would have been saved and this would not change Gods election, Christ told some "That ye also see me and believe not."They believed not because they were not of his sheep,had they been believers then they would have been given to him from the Father, John 6:64.....For Christ knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him."Christ knew this, yet he spoke to them, so it must have been done for judgement purposes there they stood at the door of mercy but could not get in why? because of election and predestination, No because of Unbelief, Light was manifested for Christ is the Light had they through grace believed they would have been justified, but they drew back from Christ unto perdition, the sinfulness and unbelief is from the creature not from God.But God is then just to give them over to the hardness of heart, to believe a lie and be damned, we preach peradventure but God knows all. Bro.Slone

 

Song Books

Thanks Brother Bob for the songbooks, they just arrived!! I am going to quit for now and sing myself down. Brother Mike

 

Bro. Mike;
Do you agree or disagree that man because of what Adam did, knows good and evil?

 

good and evil

those who have sinned after simlutude of Adam's transgression, would be the one's knowing moral good and immoral evil, though death has reigned over all, infants and children and some, even adults have not sinned after the simlutude of Adam's trangression and thus would not know the difference, therefore children must be taught,they know how to do wrong it in their fallen nature but to do right they must be taught,Romans 5:14 if we are speaking of the imputation of sin, then we must look at Christ's words John 15:22 "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. I am still not sure what point you are getting at or was it meant to be in the form of a question, I like to answer with scripture and not just an opinion. Brother Mike