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Who first published Sweet Songster and Thomas Hymnals

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Brother Bob, Mar 8, 2006.

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  1. old regular

    old regular Active Member

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    The Sweetsongster was originally from the "Calvinistic" Methodist the Thomas Hymnal was Regular Baptist this was prior to the Mountain Associations adding the word Old before Regular Baptist and also prior to any of their sister associations using the word Primitive example:Sandlick District Association of Regular Primitive Baptist.Who was New Salem's daughter those terms however were being used by some of the Old Order Baptist else where.The Little Zion Asssn. in Indiania goes by the name Regular Baptist but corresponds with Primitive associations that were formerly using the same title (Regular Baptist)they are the same people.The Goble and Lloyds hymnals are used by some old Regular Baptist they were composed by Elders in the Primitive's.
     
    #21 old regular, May 26, 2006
  2. Brother Jeremy Slone

    Brother Jeremy Slone New Member

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    Well if any one finds out where one can get them two song books please post it or message me with it. Our churches have some but they seem to come apart alot being soft cover. I would love to get them hard back.

    The Primitive Baptist Library puts out a real nice Goble for $7.oo. Hard back
    416 Main Street
    Carthage, IL 62321 that price includes shipping and handling.

    Also Gospel Mission, Inc. P.O. Box 316 Choteau MT 59422 puts out some hymn books by various writers like Gadsby's and Newton. little higher priced and a little thicker book, at least the Gadsby's that i have.
     
    #22 Brother Jeremy Slone, Jun 25, 2006
  3. old regular

    old regular Active Member

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    Thomas Hymnal

    The Thomas Hymnal has been diffcult to obtain, lately, we may reprint it in the near future,if there is enough intrest and a printing company can be obtained. Brother Mike Slone
     
    #23 old regular, Nov 29, 2006
  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Someone in Ohio prints and sells the Thomas Hymnal but I can't find the address right now. If I find it I will post it for you. You might want to make sure it is legal before publishing the Thomas Hymnal. I don't know. I think rlvaughn or someone on here published the Goble in large print and ask if anyone would be interested in Thomas Hymnal in large print. Maybe he will answer after reading this post.

    BBob

    Actually it was Jeff Weaver;

    Jeff Weaver Join Date: Oct 2001

    Location: Saltville, VA
    Posts: 1,902
    [​IMG] RE: Who first published Sweet Songster and Thomas Hymnals
    I was taking a nap. ;)

    I think the publication data above is correct. As for the inspiration, alterations of hymns etc., I am unable to say. I do suspect that some of the hymns in both books, particularly in the Thomas have been incorrectly attributed to Watts and others. Thomas and D. H. Goble both seem to have had the opinion that if a hymn was in Watt's hymnal, he wrote it, which isn't true.

    When I reworked the Goble hymnal for a large print edition, I tried to correct as much of that misinformation as I could ferret out. See http://www.lulu.com/content/95100 if you are interested in that. It sells for what it costs to print, so I'm not making any money on it.

    I was approached once about reworking the Thomas in large print, but never pursued it. Is there any interest in such a thing?

    Jeff

    Hope you didn't throw my book away after we didn't agree on doctrine. :)
     
    #24 Brother Bob, Nov 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2006
  5. old regular

    old regular Active Member

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    thomas hymnal

    The copyright on the Thomas Hymnal is very old and no longer in effect.I may try to contact Jeff, we were going to print it ,for S snd H and price of printing. Bro.Mike
     
    #25 old regular, Dec 1, 2006
  6. Brother Jeremy Slone

    Brother Jeremy Slone New Member

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    Brother Mike I did't know you were thinking about doing that. I have called alot of people just to go around in circles trying to get copies of the Thomas. Think it could be done hardback like the Goble. another thing that would be nice is to make copies on CDs of some of the line singing like SM, CM, LM and so on that people could try and learn the songs with the hymnal. or I guess they could just go to the Blessed Hope site and hear the songs since you sing alot out of there anyhow. Well I hope it gets done.
     
    #26 Brother Jeremy Slone, Dec 5, 2006
  7. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver New Member

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    I have started making the new plates in PDF, about 10% through now. These old books can be reprinted in facsimilie reprint, but a new set of plates gives a new crispness to it, plus it gives the opportunity to increase the font size for my tired eyes, and correct some mistakes as to authorship of some of the hymns.

    Jeff Weaver
     
    #27 Jeff Weaver, Dec 20, 2006
  8. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Jeff Weaver;

    Do you use paper plates or do they burn aluminum plates from the paper ones. Also, are you completely retyping or are you somehow scanning? Do you have a print shop or do you farm it out? Do you put hard backs on them or just paper backs. I discovered that black paper backs cost more than other colored ones, that surprised me.
     
    #28 Brother Bob, Dec 20, 2006
  9. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver New Member

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    Neither, electronic plates. Some retyping, some scanning, some cut and paste from the Goble, and other hymns I have on my website.

    I can offer hard and paper backs. Farm it out, I can get it printed by the big guys cheaper than I could do it in a mom and pop operation. The printer i use charges a set price per page, and set price for binding in either paper or hardcover. But I get a discount depending on the volume. These are Print on Demand, so don't have to have a warehouse to store them either.
     
    #29 Jeff Weaver, Dec 20, 2006
  10. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I doubt if you have seen my book called "The Baptist Song Book", but it is on my web site. I always have 500 at a time printed and only do it for the churches. Since I started in 1990 several have started also and there is just not enough traffic for that many publishers, so I may get out of it. I have a black cover which gives it the look of the Sweet Songster but not a hard back. The Sweet Songster don't have a hard cover anymore. There is no money to be made by the time you give to the sick, poor and moderators, preacher etc. My web site is at the bottom of my posts in my signature.
     
    #30 Brother Bob, Dec 20, 2006
  11. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc Member

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    Ordering Songbooks

    FYI to all interested:

    My brother just talked to Bro. Frank Blevins who makes orders for the Thomas Hymnal and Sweet Songster. Bro Blevins told my brother he is getting an order ready for around the middle of Feb. If anyone is interested in ordering, PM me and I will get you his phone number.

    Another thing my brother told me was Bro Blevins mentioned that there is a Sweet Songster in the Smithsonian that is not copyrighted by Billups and is older than the 1854 date. I don't recall the actual date on it.

    David
     
    #31 Bethelassoc, Jan 31, 2007
  12. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    The Sweet Songster

    The church I go to is a United Baptist church that is just like the ORB. Brother Bob, a man I know and love to hear sing, knows my dad, who is also an ORB Elder in the Sardis association. I used to go to church with Cecil Fields, who was a Tri-state Zion Association of United Baptist preacher and grandson, or great-grandson of W.W. Fields, the 1st moderator of the Sardis association. Now, getting back to the sweet songster, the churches I go to, uses the Sweet songster, but I believe they are very old. I hope to go to church this sunday, weather permitting, and I will try to get some info on it. They also use the Thomas Hymnals...old ones as well, I think. But I will try to do the best I can. Take care and may God bless!! John 3:16:1_grouphug:
     
    #32 convicted1, Feb 2, 2007
  13. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc Member

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    Ordered Songbooks

    I just ordered some songbooks from Bro. Blevins in KY. I found out why they are so hard to come by. He owns the copyright and printing rights to both books.

    He said he's been busy this past year with book orders. I'm thankful to hear that so many are interested in the books.

    David
     
    #33 Bethelassoc, Feb 8, 2007
  14. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver New Member

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    Bro. David

    He may think he owns the printing rights, but in fact the copyright has long expired on both books.

    Jeff
     
    #34 Jeff Weaver, Apr 28, 2007
  15. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Anyone know who the author is of the song "Hark, listen to the trumpsters"?
    There seems to be an author's name in top right corner of Page 115 Sweetsongster by the name of Veder. Anyone know who Veder is?



    THE SWEET Songster. 115
    HYMN 101. C. M. (VEDER.

    HARK!listen to thetrumpeters,
    They call for volunteers.
    Zion's Bright and flowery mount,
    Behold theofficers.

    Their horses white,their garments bright,
    With courage boldthey stand,
    Enlisting soldiers (or their king,
    To march for Canaan's land.

    It sets my heart all in a flame,
    A soldier for to be
    I will enlist.gird on myarms,
    And fight for liberty.

    We want no cowards in our band,
    That will Their colors fly;
    We call for valiant.hearted men,
    Who 're not afraid to die.

    0’ see our armies on parade,
    How martial they appear,
    All arm'd and dress'd in uniform,
    They look like men of war.

    -Theyfollow theirgreat general,
    The great Eternal Lamb;
    Hisgarments stain'd in his own blood,
    King Jesus ishis name.

    Sinners,enlist with JesusChrist,
    The eternal Son of God,
    And march with us to Canaan's land,
    Beyond the swelling flood.




    We'llshout and sing forevermore,
    In that eternal world,
    While Swan and his armies, too,
    Shall down to hell be hurl'd.

    Lift up your heads, ye soldiers bold,
    Redemption's drawing nigh
    We soon shall hear the trumpet sound,
    That shakes both earth and sky.
    -
    In Fiery chariots we shall rise.
    And leave the world on fire:
    And all surround the throne of love,
    Obtaining our desire.
     
    #35 Brother Bob, Aug 4, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2007
  16. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Bro. Bob, I have some information, but not much. Maybe Bro. Robert will have more information.

    The "CM" in the title is for "common meter," 4/4 time.

    The hymn dates back to at least 1835, when The Trumpeters was published in The Southern Harmony, and Musical Companion by William Walker. It lists a "Rev. Mr. McCloud" as composer of the melody; there is no notation on who penned the words.

    You can view the page at:

    http://www.ccel.org/ccel/walker/harmony/files/gif/The_Trumpeters/710.html

    The words are probably older; the hymn was already popular as early as 1835 among the Mormons, who sang it as a battle song. It may even go back to the Revolution, with "Tories" replacing "cowards."

    The hymn was later adapted as They Look Like Men of War (taking its name from the last line of the third verse of the 1835 printed version) by black recruits during the Civil War.
     
    #36 rsr, Aug 4, 2007
  17. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Thank you rsr; I like the words.
     
    #37 Brother Bob, Aug 4, 2007
  18. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I need addresses where I can buy
    SweetSongster
    and Thomas Hymnal.

    Thank you,

    BBob
     
    #38 Brother Bob, Aug 6, 2007
  19. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Does anyone have an address or phone number? I have to go to the Philadelphia Association this weekend in Flatwoods, Ky. I am carrying the letter of correspondence from the Sardis Association to them. I will ask around and see if anyone has any addresses.
     
    #39 Brother Bob, Aug 8, 2007
  20. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc Member

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    Bro Bob,

    I sent you a PM on where to buy the books, but to just let anyone else interested in knowing that due to popular demand lately, they are behind on getting out book orders. I was told that large bookorders are going out first and then smaller ones.

    I need to call him back to see how things are going.

    David
     
    #40 Bethelassoc, Aug 8, 2007
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