Dependence on Government Hurting Black People

As far as I'm concerned, ungratefulness is a spiritual sin second only to the unpardonable sin in it's evilness.

 

One black 70 year old lady (evacuee)said this tonight on one of the news networks: She said that she had never been on public assistance, that she had worked hard all of her life and that all she was looking for is a "hand-up not a hand-out".
This is exactly what welfare was meant to be.... temporary assistance not a permanent income.

 

It is sad to see so many people so misinformed about the welfare community. Here are some numbers for you to chew on. These numbers are from 1992, at the height of the recession, and before PWORA, (the Welfare Reform Act), was put into place.

1. There were approximately 5 million people on welfare in 1992.

2. The black population at the time was roughly 31.4 million people

3. The average family stayed on welfare for a period of roughly 22 months. Only 20% of families stayed on welfare for more than five years. (This is now a mute point because welfare benefits are limited to five years period) Please Note: This 20% also consisted of children and those with disabilities who are physical unable to work, such as the handicapped. While their were some who stayed on to stay on the majority did not.

4. The average payment for a family of three was $388/month or $4,656/year. (less than half of the $10,860 poverty level)

5. In 1991 welfare accounted for less than one percent of the US federal outlays.

6. Okay here are some racial breakdowns. please keep in mind that Hispanic is NOT considered a race, but ethnicity and on the census, (and any true academic research), they also choose a race (i.e. white or black or other). Approximately 39% of those receiving welfare were black, 38% non-Hispanic white, 3% Asian, and 17% were Hispanic-white. In a strict racial breakdown, the majority of welfare recipients are white.

7.African American made up only 29% of the entire American poor

What is interesting to note is that:

1.65% of poor Americans shown on television news at the time were black

2.62% of poor Americans shown in newsmagazines at the time were black.

These last two facts were taken from the research of Dr. Martin Gilens, who is an associate prof. of poly sci. and a fellow at the Institution for Social and Policy Studies at Yale.

The other facts were taken directly from the US Dept. of Health and Human Services, Characteristics and Financial Circumstances of AFDC Recipients: Fiscal Year 1991

Okay now here are some more recent numbers.

1.Did you know that in 2001 the poverty levels for African Americans was at a historic low of 22.7%. Mind you this is 22.7% of 32.9 million people living at or below the poverty line. During this same time the poverty levels of non-Hispanic white Americans rose from .4% to 7.8%.

2. Of the 7.8% of whites 63.1% received some sort of means tested assistance. 53.9% received reduced school lunches, 19% received cash assistance, 29% received food stamps, and 48.2% were on Medicaid.

3. Of the 22.7% of blacks 80.8% received some type of means based assistance. 74.9% received reduced school lunches, 33.4 received cash assistance, 47.2% received food stamps, and 65.2% were on Medicaid.

Please note: These numbers are percentages of percentages. (i.e. 47.2% of the 22.7% of the 32.9 million received food stamps)

These are taken directly from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Bureau of the Census

If you want to look at even more current numbers. In 2004, according to the US Dept. Bureau of Labor Statistics, 26.5%, of working African Americans 16 and over, worked in management, professional, and related occupations. 23.8% worked in the service occupations. 26.3% worked in sales and office occupation. 6.8% worked in natural resource, construction, or maintenance occupations, and 16.7% worked in production, transportation, and material moving occupations. These numbers are not drastically different from the breakdown of the non-Hispanic white. which were 35.6%, 15.2%, 25.5%, 11.2%, and 12.4% respectively.

Okay, my point is that there is clearly not an argument for a dependence on the "welfare state". While a great majority of people are poor they are working, and often do not take advantage of government programs, like CMG. Secondly, another interesting tidbit for you to chew on. The US ranks internationally between the Philippines and Egypt in terms of income inequality between the richest and the poorest. The richest earn on average 9 times more than the poorest. In other industrialized nations, such as the UK, Canada, and France, the richest make an average of 4-5 times more than the poorest. I am not saying that the US needs to adopt European measures, but clearly our country has a serious problem.

Also, the Department of Labor has created jobs for the hurricane victims to help with the clean up. (Lets hope our wonderful democratic and republican politicians do not allow them to be outsourced- Just kidding although it really is another serious problem in the US among both parties and is not something to joke about)

As of right now there will be 10,000 paying jobs. Hopefully this number will change, as we all saw that hundreds of thousands of people lost their homes, jobs, basically everything.

[ September 10, 2005, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: Filmproducer ]

 

FilmProducer,

You are throwing out a statistical smoke screen. By your own numbers! If blacks make up 29 percent of the American poor when they are only 17 percent of the total population, you are telling us that blacks are BY FAR, proportionally speaking, the largest contributor to the American poor and welfare roles. And this inspite of a recent influx of South American immigrants.

This means that if the black population were as large as the white population. They would absolutly swamp the welfare roles. They contribute over twice as many welfare receiptants as whites and they are only 1/5 or so as large and -yet they contribute twice as many. You have just confirmed that blacks are overly dependant on welfare and that it hurts them.

I don't know where you are getting the stats, but they show blacks to be very welfare dependant when you consider that they are less than 1/5 of the population.

I think it is clear that welfare hurts blacks and has held them back. I don't know how they came up with the porfessional numbers. But I am a professional, and I rarely come across a black member of my profession. And I did live in the south. But lots of Asians and Indians, and Pakastanies Etc. are in my profession. I know blacks are capable, so I can only conclude that welfare and affermative action has held them back. Or they would be where the Asians and Jews and others are. Hiding the problem only makes it worse. We must admit the problem if we want to advance as a nation. I want to advance as a nation with blacks by my side.

 

FilmProducer,

As I look at you numbers, They are quite confusing, I see you are saying that 39 percent receiveing welfare were black and slightly less, 38 percent, are white. So if I got your numbers right, you are saying whites and blacks contribute equal amounts to the welfare roles, yet blacks are a much smaller population as whites, so that means that proportinally speaking blacks are much more dependant on welfare than whites. If the black population were as large as the white population, than whites would not even come close having as many recipients as blacks.

To try and compare percentages on welfare without considering the fact that the black population is much smaller- is misleading.

 

Please review the numbers Bunyon. In 2001 the American poor was approximately 32.9 million people total. The black population at or below the poverty line was 22.7% (i.e., 22.7% of 32.9 million people). Also note that those who receive any assistance were a percentage of that 22.7%. Also the numbers that I gave for 2001 did not include the Hispanic-white population. The numbers from 1992 included 5 million people on welfare. Black people made up 38% of that 5 million. African Americans as a whole were 29% of the American poor at the time. Obviously, this must be too hard for you to understand, or you just do not want to admit the fact that your preconceived notions may in fact be wrong. Oh, I get it the US Dept. of Labor and the US Census just put numbers out there to fool people who actually research them, like myself (someone who seeks for the whole truth in everything). Sorry I'll keep that in mind next time.

I think it is clear that welfare hurts blacks and has held them back. I don't know how they came up with the professional numbers. But I am a professional, and I rarely come across a black member of my profession. And I did live in the south.

You are only one person. Do you really want me to believe that since you do not see African American in your profession, where you are at, that they are not in your profession at all. Frankly, that is ridiculous. The numbers were taken directly from the US Department of Labor and the US Census.

You have just confirmed that blacks are overly dependant on welfare and that it hurts them.

Please tell me how I did this? Why don't you look it up? How many people were on welfare last year? Of that amount what is the percentage of black people? I can garnet you that it is not the MAJORITY of the black population. You must not have clearly looked at the statistics concerning employment that I gave. Here they are for recap and just for fun I'll include the unemployment stats. Again these are taken directly from the US Department of Labor.

EMPLOYMENT STATISTICS 2004-US DEPT. OF LABOR

In 2004, according to the US Dept. Bureau of Labor Statistics, 26.5%, of working African Americans 16 and over, worked in management, professional, and related occupations. 23.8% worked in the service occupations. 26.3% worked in sales and office occupation. 6.8% worked in natural resource, construction, or maintenance occupations, and 16.7% worked in production, transportation, and material moving occupations. These numbers are not drastically different from the breakdown of the non-Hispanic white. which were 35.6%, 15.2%, 25.5%, 11.2%, and 12.4% respectively.

Just so the percentages can be put into perspective. There were 14,909,000 total African Americans 16 and over. There were 115,239,000 non-Hispanic whites 16 and over.
Please remember that the total number of African Americans will in fact be lower, because they are 12.4% of the population.

UNEMPLOYMENT STATISTICS- US DEPARTMENT OF LABOR

1. African Americans (there were approximately 1,729,000 unemployed African American)- 47.9% were job losers and persons who completed temp jobs. Of that 47.9%, 7.5% were on temp layoff and 40.4 were not. 8.2% were job leavers. 34.1% were reenterents. 9.8% were new enterents.

2. Non-Hispanic whites (there were approximately 5,847,000 unemployed)- 53.1% were job losers and persons who completed temp jobs. Of that 14.0% were on temp layoff and 39.1% were not. 11.2% were job leavers. 28% were reenterents. 7.7% were new enterents.


NOTE: all figures are taken from the population survey.

 

I will explain it again. The white population actually consists of non-Hispanic white and Hispanic-white. Remember for 1992 5 million people were on the welfare roles. 39% were black or approximately 1.95 million people. 38% were non-Hispanic white or approximately 1.9 million people. 17% were Hispanic-white or approximately 85,000 people.

If you remember the African American population was 31.4 million people. Only 1.95 million were on welfare. How can you claim a dependence on the welfare state has hurt the black community? I could probably understand if you were saying being "poor" has hurt the African American population, but not a dependence on welfare.

 

I can garnet you

sorry, that's guarantee

 

If you remember the African American population was 31.4 million people. Only 1.95 million were on welfare. How can you claim a dependence on the welfare state has hurt the black community? I could probably understand if you were saying being "poor" has hurt the African American population, but not a dependence on welfare.

Even so, being poor is not equivalent to expecting government handouts. Being poor does not mean they are not hard workers or are slackers, or that they could strive to get better jobs but just settle. African Americans do not have that mentality of themselves, so why should you in theory? Their are people who work 2 full time minimum wage jobs, just to stay afloat. Correct me if I am wrong, but white people do that to. I will also guarantee that their are many black people, like that 70 year old woman previously mentioned who want a hand-up, NOT a handout. There is a reason why their is a racial divide in America, and a lot of it has to do with preconceived stereotypes and that is sad. Maybe it is a subconscious thing, but it is still sad. Unfortunately, I believe the media is to blame. Visual images are important in forming one's opinions and too often the media shows only the worst in the black society, so I really cannot blame people for their preconceived notions.

 

FilmProducer,

No need to be insulting. You are giving percentages within percentages, that is inherently confusing. And stats are notoriously easy to skew in a way that helps one's arguments. I wasn't being personal, because I did not think you crunched the numbers yourslef.

Ok, based on your raw numbers (that makes things much easier) the white pop. is aprox 7.6 times larger than the black pop. So if we were to campare apples to apples by making the black pop. as large as the white, we would have 14 million blacks on welfare, as opposed to only 1.9 million whites on welfare.

So proportionally speaking, there are seven times more more blacks on welfare than whites. This is what I mean when I say that to simply say that equal numbers of whites are on welfare as blacks is misleading because there are 7 to 8 times more whites than blacks based on your 1992 raw numbers. Blacks are contributing the same number of welfare recipients and their pop. is 7 to 8 times smaller than whites. You don't see a problem with this?

That pretty much establishes that blacks are much more dependant on welfare than whites. This is not to say that whites are superior, just that the blacks community has a problem it needs to be honest about and deal with.

I am just one person, as you say, but it seems to me that the media is misrepresenting things the other way. You see many black doctors on tv, but not many in real life. I think for the sake of blacks we should quit painting rosey pictures and deal with the cold hard truth as this black preacher did. For the sake of blacks and our nation. We think welfare hurts blacks and whites, but blacks more because they are so disproportionally dependant on it.


PS I disregarded the 85000 hispanic whites because it would not change the outcome.

 

FilmProducer,

If anyone is saying that all blacks are slakers and welfare takers, I disagree with them. I agree with you that blacks have value and as much potential as any race. And the majority are moving ahead. But we are not seeing their full potential. And we believe that having such a larger percent (13%) of their population on welfare is a major contributing factor(only 1.5% for whites). We are saying, like the black preacher, quite blaming whites and deal with the obvious problems. I am on your side even though I see the problem differently.

 

That pretty much establishes that blacks are much more dependant on welfare than whites. This is not to say that whites are superior, just that the blacks community has a problem it needs to be honest about and deal with.

First of all African Americans are honest about this problem. People are also trying to "deal" with as you stated. There is a problem with poverty in African American society. This said poverty does NOT mean a dependence on welfare. Yes, proportionally speaking there are more black people on welfare, but the numbers are not all what you assume. One out of every ten white people is on welfare. Three out of every ten black people are on welfare. It is still not a MAJORITY of the black population. You must also remember that black people have had more to overcome than white people. The poverty rate for blacks was at a HISTORIC LOW in 2001, meaning things are slowly getting better. by the way, open up your phone book, there are a variety of programs out their to teach people how to become more independent and economically stable. A lot of them are in the black community.

You see many black doctors on tv, but not many in real life. I think for the sake of blacks we should quit painting rosey pictures and deal with the cold hard truth as this black preacher did. For the sake of blacks and our nation.

Please, did you not look at the statistics of the employed African Americans from the labor department. I guess you would be shocked to know that there are more BLACK ACCOUNTANTS than there are BLACK PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES. As I have stated in another thread, the African American population is more diverse than you think.

know blacks are capable, so I can only conclude that welfare and affirmative action has held them back.

Please explain how affirmative action is holding back African Americans. Please give me examples of where an African American was hired over a white person and that African American did not have the same or equivalent experience? I want evidence that the company hired the black person with lesser qualifications, not just your opinion.

You keep saying that blacks are not living up to their potential. What do you mean by this? (obviously I know you do not mean all blacks)

Please tell me how can anyone "break the poverty barrier" so to speak? I do not mean get a job, because, as I previously stated, many people are working, sometimes even two full time jobs to stay afloat. Poverty affects all races in America, and it is a problem for all equally, because we are all Americans.

 

Amen, and it would take generations to undo the damage done. But it can't be.IMHO

 

FilmProducer,

Please hear me. I never ever said the majority of blacks were on welfare. You keep saying this. I am not of that opinion. But based on your numbers only 1 to 2 percent of whites are on welfare whereas 13 to 15 pecent of blacks are. That is quite a difference. But by the way you threw stats out (or they were laid out by your source) that simple difference was hidden. That's why I said your pelthora of statistics was serving as a smoke screen.

And we are all asserting that the damage being done is to all races, but blacks have 7 times more dependance, therefore 7 times more damage.

I believe there is diversity in the black community. And the news about professionals is good. All I can say is based on my experience in the West and South, blacks are largely missing from the porfessional ranks of the medical community. Are you satisfied with that?
In my area of the south, blacks made up 50 percent of the general pop.

When I say blacks are not living up to their potential, I am speaking collectively. 15 percent on welfare is a big anchor.

How can one break the poverty barrier? Let's look at the Asian, who have now dominated Harvard and are well represented in the professions. Larry Elders, said that he was on the corner in a major city near a librery when he noticed black and white kids whiling away the whole after school time on skatboards. Where were the Asian? In the liberey studying for the whole afternoon. That is how you break the poverty barrier. The same way the Jews did!

This thread is getting long so I will stop now. But if you are intrested, I can give you irrefutable prof positive where blacks have been hired before more quilfied whites. And we all know about the recent supreme court decision where it was upheld that universities could give blacks extra admission points over whites in the intrest of creating a diverse student body.

 

"Black" is now self designated. It is a cultural, not a racial classification. Some self designated "black" people are paler skinned than Spanish or Italian people. Except for those in the amusement industries and politics, the successful theoretically black people have joined the main stream American culture.

 

billwald- ""Black" is now self designated. It is a cultural, not a racial classification. Some self designated "black" people are paler skinned than Spanish or Italian people. Except for those in the amusement industries and politics, the successful theoretically black people have joined the main stream American culture. "

True billwald, but more people will designate white than black, so that would mean the numbers are even worse than thay appear.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What were your impressions of the conduct of citizens and residents during the disbursement of the $2,000 debit cards? Did folks seem grateful for this help or did they seem more like it was an entitlement that was too little too late?

If it were your money, would you be inclined to give more or less? You do know it's not your money don't you? Do you feel obligated to give it? Do you feel threatened if you didn't? Do you feel votes depend upon it?

 

Some African Americans are honest about this problem such as Niger Innis, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, Roy Innis BUT most such as Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton are not dealing with the real issues.

When I see the thousands of poor Blacks around the Superdome and on the overpass near it I can only say here is the results of LBJ's War on Poverty. A dependant society on Federal government. It is very disturbing and sad. Too many have traded the Southern plantation slavery for slavery to a Welfare system that does not encourage advancement.

The future of the African American society in the US is bleak if something does not change. You cannot continue to blame racism for your problems. The Federal government throwing money at this situation will not change it. People do not wish to address this because you will be called a racist but honest dialogue is needed.