Katrina - God's punishment on the U.S

Couldn't have been waiting too eagerly.

 

It says that some of the redeemed would be among those under judgment.

 

"This is pure dispensational hogwash. To say that God is going to punish those who have been redeemed to Him by the death of Jesus Christ because of the Jews is blasphemous."

Where does that say 'some'?

 

It depends on what you mean by "active."

Do you believe God is active in every hurricane and that some are his judgment or all of them are?

 

Job 1:[18] While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
[19] And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.


Job.38
[1] Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind...

 

It does not take a very sophisticated mind to understand that there are Christians who lived in the region devastated by Katrina and now Rita. Also it takes an even less sophisticated mind to believe that all Americans are Christians, or that I stated all Americans are Christians, particularly since I assume that Canada is part of the America's.

 

Jesus said Mat 5:45 (KJV1611 Edition):

That yee may be the children of your
father which is in heauen: for he
maketh his sunne to rise on the euill
and on the good, and sendeth
raine on the iust, and on the vniust.

 

Remember the story of Job. It was Satan who wanted to send destruction upon Job and so as a test of Job's character, or rather to prove that he was indeed a righteous man who would serve God even if things went not so good, God allowed Satan to destroy his stuff.

Job didnt deserve it.

On the other hand, sometimes God does send judgments upon people who are not following His Laws. "The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left." Isaiah 24:5,6

Genesis 6:
11: The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12: And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13: And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
17: And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

But then again remember the story in the Bible about the man born blind. Everyone accused the man and said his parents mustve done something wrong, etc... to make God bring this unfortunate thing upon him, but Jesus said no, it was not because he had done anything wrong.

So it really is something we cannot know.


I dont think we ought to be accusing anyone of being on God's hit list, when perhaps they are good people... on the other hand, we ought not to encourage the wicked in their wickedness if God does punish them by the use of disasters, etc.. we ought to keep out of the business of judging them altogether

Ezek:13:22: "Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life"

What if tomorrow YOUR CHURCH were to be wiped out by a tornado? Would you like if people started saying that it is a sign that your church or denomination must be condemned by God?

Again, think of Job.


Claudia

 

It depends on what you mean by "active."

Do you believe God is active in every hurricane and that some are his judgment or all of them are? </font>[/QUOTE]All right, I'll just cut to the chase...

If you believe that events are random and purposeless, then you can take refuge in the fact that God who has the power to undo a hurricane sat by the sidelines and watched as millions of innocent people were needlessly ravaged. Beside the fact that this would be flimsy refuge at best, I fail to see how this is a preferable notion to the one that says God purposefully sent the hurricane.

In one view God does nothing while millions suffer; in another God sends the suffering for His own purposes and according to the counsel of His own will, which, we're told, is for the eternal benefit of His children.

If you believe that God has a hand in everything, then it follows He has a purpose, His purpose can be known, and we're responsible to know it.

That's all I said.

 

I can find no scriptural support for this. None. I can find scriptural support for the concept that God punishes individuals for what individuals do. And in the NT, that punishment tends to be (but is not exclusively) focused on the aspect of the spiritual rather than the physical.

Whoa, there, Aaron, just because one doesn't think Katrina et al are "God's punshment" doesn't mean that those events are random with God at all. Tropical storms and hurricanes in the Gulg region are normal, natural and expected. There are some 10 to 20 every year. Therefore, if a person builds his house there, it's going to end up in the path of a hurricane from time to time.

If I build my house in the middle of a highway, it's neither God's punishment if a car hits it, nor is it a random occurrence.

 

I agree with JohnV's response.

It's a false dichotomy to say it's either random or God's judgment. God can use anything for His purposes, but hurricanes, earthquakes, storms, etc. are part of the fallen world's cycles.

 

so are locusts, hail and flies

 

and famine.

 

They're just random, i.e. purposeless, to us?

Tropical storms and hurricanes in the Gulg region are normal, natural and expected. There are some 10 to 20 every year. Therefore, if a person builds his house there, it's going to end up in the path of a hurricane from time to time.

Which is just another way of saying Katrina was a random event.

That's not what I said. I said it's either random or purposeful.

God can use anything for His purposes, but hurricanes, earthquakes, storms, etc. are part of the fallen world's cycles.

Which is saying God had no purpose in Katrina, but found one in the same way we might find a new use for a discarded coffee can.

Events are either random or purposeful. There are no two ways about it. So if Katrina was random, there was no purpose for good or evil. If she wasn't random, then we are responsible to know God's purpose behind her.

 

How ridiculous! You're saying that we either subscribe to the idea that Katrina is punishment from God, or we're accused of saying that Katrina is a random event. Your rationale here is flawed.

The problem is with your implication that the sole purpose must therefore be God's punishment. That's completely ridiculous.

You have a very odd and unfounded definition of "no purpose".

God's puspose behind Katrina was to have a hurricane in the Gulf Coast. He allows this to happen some 10-20 times in the Gulf Coast every year. Why is it that some are not satisfied with natural events occuring in accordance with the laws of nature that God set in place as being God's purpose?

 

Don't blame me if you can't see any other purpose for a devestating storm that killed hundreds, and ravaged thousands more, nearly crippled our economy and doubled the price of gas. What a blessing.

God's puspose behind Katrina was to have a hurricane in the Gulf Coast.

You don't get to play both sides. It was either purposeless or not. You don't get to say God's purpose was to have no purpose.

 

If I build my house in a highway, what is God trying to tell me when my house gets hit by a car? He's probably telling me that if I build my house on a highway, it's sometimes going to get hit by a car.

Likewise, if I build a city in an area frequented by hurricanes, and my city gets hit by a hurricane, what's God trying to tell me? He's telling me that if I build a city in an area that's frequented by hurricanes, it's sometimes going to get hit.

What a completely false dichotomy. The conclusion of purpose doesn't fit your manmade idea, so therefore it must be purposeless. Ridiculous. What's even sadder is that you are so blind to your own false dichotomy, you can't see it, choosing instead to point the holier-than-thou finger at others.

 

So Johnv, if a disaster falls into the category of "natural", IE hurricanes, earthquakes, floods etc etc, then it's just that -- natural.

Am I interpreting your post correctly?

If not please elaborate a little more.

Frankly I don't know, and I seriously doubt that you do either, whether this was a direct judgement of God, a permissive judgement of God, or a pure & simple natural disaster with God just letting "nature" take it's course.

So disagreement as to whether it is a judgment or no is not of importance, but the attitude that "It MOST definitely was not" 'pears to be a little presumptious of thinking you know God's purposes a bit more than the lowly masses.

Which brings up a good question: based on your opinion (again, if I'm reading you correctly) that "natural is natural', what's your opinion on the 9-11 disaster?

Sure was not nature at work (excluding the aerodynamics of flight and the combustability of jet fuel) so was this a judgment?

 

Who says that these are disasters? It's a disaster based on how much we're inconvenienced, or experience loss. Don't get me wrong, I'm not belittling anyone's loss, but scripture says that the sun shines and the rain falls on the just and unjust alike. When did something "natural" get demoted as God's creation????

God directly created the laws of physics that dictate nature. I think that's awesome!! When something happens in accordance with the laws of nature, it's natural. It's no less awesome, and it's no less a wonderful blessing from God.

9-11 was the result of a bunch of fundamentalist extremists desiring to do damage.