The Bema Seat Judgement A question

Ed,

There are two or probably more problems of your questions- 'WHO?', 'Where's?'

You saying of Matt 25:31-46 - 'WHO?' these are nations, are not saved, still have physical body.

The problem of your question on 'WHO's?' How can you know that the nations will miss rapture, and will have other chance to be saved during seven year of tribulation period?

Second, other problem of your question - 'WHERE?' You saying of Matt. 25:31-46 will be take place in Jerusalem. Does Matt. 25:31-46 saying it will take place in Jerusalem?

Rev. 20:11 tells us, old heavens and old earth shall be PASSED AWAY, no place for them to escape from the face of God's wrath. Obivously, old Jerusalem shall be destroyed by fire send by God at Christ's coming.

Matt. 25:31-46 shows a very clear picture of great white throne to judge all nations at Christ's coming. No way that you can afford to disagree of Matt. 25:31-46 shows clear of great white throne. Because Matt. 25:31 tells us, Christ shall sit on throne to judge the nations.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

DeafPosttrib: "Right. Matt. 25:31-46 does not saying anything about 'a thousand years'. Neither, Christ say there will be two judgement days in this passage either."

Romans 10:9 doesn't say you will live forever
but says you can be saved.

John 3:16 doesn't say you will be saved but does
say you will live forever (eternal life).

Isa 28:13 (KJV1611 Edition):
But the word of the Lord was vnto them, precept vpon precept, line vpon line, here a litle and there a litle:
that they might goe and fall backward,
and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Puting the two together, you find out that the
saved receive eternal life; you receive eternal life
when you are saved.
Thus adding the two together, you find out when
you get saved you receive eternal life
AND STAY SAVED.

 

I think you have been chewing on too much preterism. Got some stuck in your teeth. How can you say this is the kingdom, that the church is reigning with Christ? How is a thousand years symbolic for two thousand years? Just how long do you believe this make-believe kingdom is going to last? You call yourself DeafPosttrib, and I assumed that meant you believed in a trib. How can the kingdom come before the trib?

 

Amen!

 

Amen! </font>[/QUOTE]Amen? We need a little less Greek "mythology" and a little more Bible. These verses clearly define what the "Bema" is biblically. Look at them in context and compare what was happening to the silly theory about the "Bema" being a cake walk.

Just because it is scary doesn't make it untrue.


Mt 27:19
When he was set down on the judgment seat (Bema), his wife sent unto him, saying , Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.

Joh 19:13
When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat(Bema) in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

Ac 18:12
And when Gallio was the deputy of Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat, (Bema)

Ac 18:16
And he drave them from the judgment seat.(Bema)

Ac 18:17
Then all the Greeks took Sosthenes, the chief ruler of the synagogue, and beat him before the judgment seat(Bema). And Gallio cared for none of those things.

Ac 25:6
And when he had tarried among them more than ten days, he went down unto Caesarea; and the next day sitting on the judgment seat(Bema) commanded Paul to be brought.

Ac 25:10
Then said Paul, I stand at Caesar's judgment seat(Bema), where I ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very well knowest.

Ac 25:17
Therefore, when they were come hither, without any delay on the morrow I sat on the judgment seat,(Bema) and commanded the man to be brought forth.

Ro 14:10
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat(Bema) of Christ.

2Co 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat(Bema) of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

No doctrine is affected, no doctrine is affected BRAAAWWWWK!

Polly want a cracker?

Lacy

 

He paid the price for these two if they had “endured until the end”. I believe this is a good place for some to give further consideration to the dispensations of God. It does not change how we Baptist are saved, but is just a more perfect understanding of God’s actions – Acts 18:26.

That first year after Pentecost, God was still dealing directly and immediately with His People. They, the Apostles of Jesus Christ could ask anything, and judge anything for they had the great Power of the Holy Spirit, just as Jesus had promised them. Peter and the other Apostles were just like Jesus while on the earth; they knew the hearts of people, and in that dispensation even those that had the Holy Ghost still had to endure until the end. The husband and wife mentioned likely could only speak in tongues to further the Gospel of the “great commission” to the Jew. These two did not endure until the end, and I believe “tempting and lying” to the Holy Spirit in that day was part of the Unpardonable Sin.

These were “covenant people” that made covenant with God, and we should praise Him even more that we today, whether Gentile or Jew, are not asked to agree to anything. Peter during that first year as the head of the Jewish Apostolic (Pentecostal) church, had the power to judge, and what ever he or any of the Apostle’s (James, Jesus’ half-brother had no authority whatever at this time) asked for or to be done was done, regardless of how outrageous (or not loving and forgiving) we may think. The Holy Ghost was at their “beck and call” to do all possible to bring those that came through the 12 tribes to the knowledge and acceptance of their King, Jesus the Christ.

The parable of the fig tree tells Israel the Holy Ghost is the fertilizer to give a boost to the tree so it may live, but the tree could be cut down if it was no good, and that is what happened to Israel. God allowed plenty of time, one year for Israel to accept Messiah. God was not surprised for God knew what would happen, thus we have Damascus Road.

Today we do not have the Power of the Holy Spirit as those in that dispensation. That Power was for the purpose of giving God’s people every opportunity to receive their Messiah, their King, so at the Great White Throne Judgment none of them will have any excuse.

Oh wouldn’t it be wonderful today if we had the power to move mountains, and the rest? Yes it would, but it is not so. So No! For it is a more wondrous thing that we have today.

I would rather have the gospel of Christ Jesus from heaven that we receive through Paul’s gospel, and that gospel only began after Damascus Road and not before. Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Once Saved Always Saved even while we live was unheard of, and unknown for it was not available. If we would just believe Christ from Heaven, believing even from the beginning God had hidden this from man.

I believe in your reference to I Corinthians you will find progressiveness should be understood. I Corinthians 11:30, ”For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.” Today when we sin it is most likely a “stubbing of a toe”.

Ouch! “we say” – weak or not up to snuff.

Then the second time we do it we may say, “Oh! Oh! Oh! , Boy that sure did hurt” – we could be laid up in bed.

We kept this up, and that toe is so festered the severity of it has spread to the whole body – We are dead (asleep). This I believe is “chastisement”, and if we don’t quit bumping our “toe” the chastisement stops, and so do we. But “sleep” denotes the person is still in the Body of Christ, for once in His Body we have already been “judged righteous”, and sealed in. There is not anything one of us that are in His body can do to get out. But as we each individually stand before Him at our rewards ceremony will certainly pay a price in eternity for our “little fun time, or lying, cheating, stealing, gossiping, and you name it. There is a price for “hurting the cause of Christ”. How embarrassing in front of the whole host of heaven we will be, and we will deserve it. And we will regret our actions for all of eternity, but we will be happy and not saying “what if”, for we will be praising, worshipping and serving our Lord Jesus Christ forever, regardless of our status in Him. Christian faith, ituttut

 

Lu 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman (JESUS) went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

Note the "occupy till I come".

Let's take a brief look at occuring events when He comes.

Jesus will stand on "Mt Olives".

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,

Angle reaper will cast all "unsaved" in to hell.

Mt 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

This is the "WHEAT/TARES" separation.

Mt 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the (ANGEL) reapers,

Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: (HELL) but gather the wheat into my barn.

No unsaved person, dead or alive, will stand in judgement at this time, those unsaved/alive go to hell, and the unsaved dead, stay dead until the GWT Judgment.

Now, let's continue with the scriptures.

Lu 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

Lu 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.

17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.

19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.

22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.

25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)

26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

This "JUDGMENT" is the "BEMA SEAT", only those "SAVED" are judged and given "REWARDS", (not salvation) according to their "WORKS".

Authority to live/reign over "Ten/Five" cities during the Mill reign was given to the "Faithful".

But what about the "wicked servant" who had not gained anything,

first, if he was unsaved, the angels would have cast him into hell with the others.

Second, Salvation doesn't depend on "WORKS", a person can be saved even if "ALL THEIR WORKS" are burned up, as this man's were.

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The "REWARDS" are just that, "REWARDS" according to our "efforts/accomplishments", and only the "SAVED" are "eligible" to stand in judgment for "rewards".

 

How does this compare to the parable of the talents in Matthew 25? We have basically the same sequence of events, the servants are called to give account of their stewardship, and the unprofitable servant as his talent taken away. But then the Lord commands punishment for the unprofitable servant.

Matthew 25:28-30
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto everyone that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

Amen! </font>[/QUOTE]Amen? We need a little less Greek "mythology" and a little more Bible. These verses clearly define what the "Bema" is biblically. Look at them in context and compare what was happening to the silly theory about the "Bema" being a cake walk.

Just because it is scary doesn't make it untrue.


Mt 27:19
When he was set down on the judgment seat (Bema), his wife sent unto him, saying , Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.

This cannot be the “Bema” for it is not the judgment seat of Christ.

Joh 19:13
When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat(Bema) in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

Your error continues

Ac 18:12
And when Gallio was the deputy of Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat, (Bema)

Ac 18:16
And he drave them from the judgment seat.(Bema)

Ac 18:17
Then all the Greeks took Sosthenes, the chief ruler of the synagogue, and beat him before the judgment seat(Bema). And Gallio cared for none of those things.

There is only One Bema Seat, and it is not down here, and your verses have nothing to do with Christ judging.


Ac 25:6
And when he had tarried among them more than ten days, he went down unto Caesarea; and the next day sitting on the judgment seat(Bema) commanded Paul to be brought.

How can this in any way be connected with the “Bema” of Christ. These people refused Him, and all that refuse will be judged at the “Great White Throne Judgment”

Ac 25:10
Then said Paul, I stand at Caesar's judgment seat(Bema), where I ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very well knowest.

Now you have a Gentile sitting on Jesus’ seat??

Ac 25:17
Therefore, when they were come hither, without any delay on the morrow I sat on the judgment seat,(Bema) and commanded the man to be brought forth.

Where are you finding these judgment seats to be the “Bema” seat? Where ever that may be it is from the mind of one without knowledge of the Word of God.

Ro 14:10
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat(Bema) of Christ.

This is not of salvation, but the error of judging others in the Body of Christ. We will answer to Christ each time we judge those of His. Perhaps this is a One pointer, or a 10 Pointer – who knows? Whatever the Point assigned on this, that quantity will be burned, reducing the reward of the individual.

2Co 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat(Bema) of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. </font>[/QUOTE]That tells the whole story. If it is bad, then it will be thrown into a big “bon fire”, reducing any reward/s we may have coming for the good.

This judgment at the “Bema” seat of Christ will be done over a thousand years before the Great White Throne judgment, those that will be judged from the “books”. We in the Body of Christ find our “judgment” of the Bema seat in I Corinthians 3:11-15. This judgment seat of Christ has to do with the Rapture of those of His Church, and is not to visit pain on us, but to meet out what is due us that accepted Gods free gift. Today that gift is salvation for all that believe on His for their salvation. Our works after our salvation may not survive, but we will. Salvation is not a reward for us, but “the gift from God”. We should be so happy for this gift, that we want to do good works in His name, but not for ourselves. Christian faith, ituttut

 

If you'll "NOTICE" I said this was the "WHEAT/TARES" separation, only the "SAVED/LIVING" are judged.

Now note what is said at the end of this "parable".

Mt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is the GWT Judgement, both SAVED, (sheep, MK) and UNSAVED, (goats, Hell gives up it dead) are judged in this judgement.

BEMA SEAT occurs "BETWEEN" the end of the trib/start of the Mill reign Kingdom, it's called the "FIRST RESURRECTION".

The GWT Judgement occurs "AFTER" the MK is over, (thousand years).

These "Judgements" are very similar in nature, but "Different" because one is for "Rewards" the other for "eternal Destination".

It's the "little things" like this that "trip you up" in understanding the scriptures, such as:

Day of Christ, (Rapture)
Day of the Lord, (Jesus's physical return. BEMA)
Day of God, GWT.

Scripture has a "Schedule" for events to occur in the world, understanding that "Schedule" is understanding the scriptures.

Ex 23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day (MK) thou shalt rest:

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved,

be not ignorant of this one thing,

that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

Why do you believe goats are unsaved people?

 

G968
βῆμα
bēma
bay'-ma
From the base of G939; a step, that is, foot breath; by implication a rostrum, that is, tribunal: - judgment-seat, set [foot] on, throne.

 

You have a better meaning?

I beleive the sheep & goat Judgement refers to
how nations treat the Jews in the Tribulation
Period. Here is my 5 Judgments post
on the two judgements we are speaking about.
As you can see the two different judgements
ARE DIFFERENT.

---------------
...
2. Judgement Seat of Christ
WHO: Believers for works
WHEN: during the Great Tribulation on earth;
Right after the Rapture/Resurrection that starts
the Tribulation
WHERE: Heaven
WHY: to assign rewards (including
the Millinnial Kingdom rest)
to the redeemed for their good works
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

...

4. Throne of His Glory judgement
(AKA: Sheep and Goats judgement, Matthew 25:31-46)
WHO: the nations: the living survivers of the Great Tribulation
(these people are NOT saved, they are human in human bodies)
WHEN: after the Great Tribulation, before the Millennial Age
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises: God will bless those
who bless Yisrael and curse those who curse Yisrael
HOW: Judged by their treatment of Yisrael
WHAT: the cursed to Hell; the blessed to the Millennial Age

 

You'll have to understand what the "SYMBOLS" in the scriptures represents, if you have any hopes of understanding the scriptures.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice,

If Jesus is judging between "SHEEP/GOATS", and the "SHEEP" are the "SAVED", what is the "GOATS"???

Try to learn what these symbols represent, it takes the "MYSTERY" out of the scripture.

 

I'm afraid you missed my line of reasoning. I never meant to imply that any of these other "Bemas" were the JSOC. My point (to Bob's argument) was that there is no biblical reason for beliving that a "Bema" is just a place where prizes are either given or not, a place of only positive rewards. Bob argued that Christ's "Bema" supposedly was like the "Bema" at the Greek games where goodies were passed out but where the worst thing that could happen to you was that you didn't get a crown.

I simply provided scriptures that (when read in context) further defined what a "bema" was scripturally. Defining scripture with scripture.

But the verse says we will receive for both good and bad. What positive reward will we receive for the bad?

I agree.

Prove from scripture that there will be no "pain" at the JSOC.

Again, I agree. I just fail to see how simply having our "works burn up" is scriptural (especially in light of verse 17 which in the exact same context says, "HIM" shall God destroy) or how that would ever motivate us to be holy.

Thankfulness is indeed a Biblical motivation for good works. I agree. But to make it our sole motivation is to do great dis-service to the dozens of warning verses which promise disobedient, slothful Christians severe chastening in this life and at the JSOC.


Lacy

 

I missed the verse about the whipping pillory
at the Judgement Seat of Christ.

Psa 103:12 (KJV1611 Edition):
As farre as the East is from the West:
so farre hath hee remooued our transgressions
from vs.

Will our sins follow us to heaven?

 

Ed: I missed the verse about the whipping pillory
at the Judgement Seat of Christ.

Luke 12:
41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his willshall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

Could we not ask the same question to refute the notion that some will not receive any reward? Why do some get their rewards burned up? Do our sins follow us to heaven? If it refutes me, it also refutes you.

Lacy

 

I think it would be embarrassing to have whole
years of your Christian life where you get
no reward at all.

...
Ed, 1966 - BLOOD OF JESUS
Ed, 1967 - BLOOD OF JESUS
Ed, 1968 - Ed teaches 3rd grade Church Training class all summer for the right reason- 1 point
Ed, 1969 - BLOOD OF JESUS
Ed, 1970 - BLOOD OF JESUS
Eed, 1971 - Ed witnesses to Hi School student - 1 pt
...
Yep, it is going to be some loss, but
no punishment for sins under the Blood of Jesus