Beazley against exploiting religion

Beazly is right. I am suprised that the explotation of religion hasn't caused some very considerable divisions in the Church. If you are a Christian involved in Politics you don't have to go to great extremes to prove that, live your faith.

 

I agree. Using your religion for political gain is despicable. Using your religious to guide you in your political position to make moral choices is very much desirable.

 

He has fallen victim to American leftists. The Constitution of the USA merely says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

That is the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights.

A Christian in the USA is free to say anything about his or her religious belief at any time and in any place.

No one in America wants a theocracy or the establishment of a church with the exception of some liberals who want the state to be like a communist state devoid of religion, especially Christianity. Free speech means free religious expression.

Amos 8:11 (KJV) Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

 

CMG, I don't think we are talking about the constitution but you are welcome to start a thread about it if you wish.

 

Well, what I am saying, Rocko, is that the US Constitution gives every citizen freedom of speech and therefore it is up to the voters and not the government to decide if a politician's free religious expression is a detriment to his or her election.

What you want, Rocko, is a taboo or a law forbidding the free expression of speech if it involves a candidate or a candidate's religious expression. The fact of the matter is, Rocko, your party's attempt to suppress free speech is unconstitutional and contributes to your defeat. And the irony of it is that John Kerry never hesitated to read the Catholic Bible in black churches where he knew that they were Democrats. And they applauded in the black Baptist churches to hear the Catholic Bible in St. Louis and elsewhere.

 

Tell me CMG, what is my party. What is being said is that a persons opinion (Kim Beazley from Australia and not from America) observed the contemptable way Politics in this country uses Religion. Is it illegal? Some of what has been going on in the field of politiics sure border on it. Again this was Kim Beazley telling his fellow countrymen from Australia some of the pitfalls of American politics and what its' effects are on religion . Politics can sometimes be like Pornography and when it does it has no business being promoted in the church.
P.S. Don't be so liberal in your assesments of what you think another persons political affiliation is.

 

OK, Rocko, but I infer that you agree with Australian Beazley so correct me if I am wrong.

And please explain to me what is illegal in the field of politics. I know that LBJ said that tax exemption depended upon no politics in church but that does not affect things like registering voters outside of the sanctuary, etc. And it has been pointed out that it is the Democrats who make stump speeches from the pulpits and take up collections during services--just look at what Jesse Jackson did all over the country during his presidential runs.

Personally, I think that LBJ's law is unconstitutional and should be repealed. One should be able to do what Jesse Jackson did in church without its being the government's business.

But if a preachers says that he is against abortion, same-sex marriage, pornography, gambling, state lotteries, gay and lesbian adoption of children--do you call that politics, Rocko, or do you call that traditional Christian issues for the last 2000 years?

As far as what the Clintons say about their religion in public and Hillary's singing in the Methodist choir in Little Rock, I could care less about what they say. The same with Jimmy Carter, who has just published his 20th book, this one on values and religion and politics. Carter should have the right to say what he likes just as I have the right not to like what he says.

I agree with Democrat Al Smith, the Happy Warrior, and Democrat Presidential candidate in 1928--the only cure for the ills of democracy is more democracy.

I just don't want liberals using the government to tell us what we can say, where we can say it, and when we can say it. As Patrick Henry said,
"...I know not what course others may take; but as for me -- give me liberty or give me death!"

 

But if a preachers says that he is against abortion, same-sex marriage, pornography, gambling, state lotteries, gay and lesbian adoption of children
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That's it CMG , Churches should state the issues that they are for.
It doesn't make any diference what that the Party affiliation is. As for laws, laws are written by politicians so are the loopholes.
What I do not like is that when campaign season comes along we all of the sudden we have candidates that profess to be devout Christians, they become pharisaical,.
Jesse Jackson does get by with more than what he should and I cannot condone his stumping from the pulpit.The pulpit has been misused as a political tool to influence church congregations to do what is good and what is right in the eyes of man by broadly defining Biblical doctrine.
The Apostle Paul stated it well in Galations 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

 

Well, you are like LBJ in that you want to limit free speech from the pulpit. That is where I disagree with you and with most people here. Jesse Jackson may be a Democrat barbarian but he should have the right to say what he likes in the pulpit.

 

CMG you are confused. There is a fine line between seperation of church and state and it has been crossed. How are you going to compel people to hear the word of God when politics overide the Bible. I go to Church to recieve the word of God and am offended by misuse of the Church for any other reason than that. You have plenty of time for political discussion after Church. Politics is trash talk and has no place in the Church.There is nothing wrong with Churches taking a stand on issues that that concerns Christian morality but I draw the line at using the pulpit to influence church goers to vote a certain way, whether that message is implied or directed specifically.

 

I agree with you 100%. The unfortunate truth, though, is that many will say they agree with you, but then do exactly what is warned against in the OP.

 

I don't want to see religion exploited, but there is nothing wrong with a candidate expressing his faith and values publically. It is up to the voters to decide if they are being given and honest expression or if they are being exploited.

 

I do indeed agree with you. My concern is when expressing of such faith is a pseudorequirement of sorts. I've heard more than one person criticize a public person for being silent on his faith.

 

All I can say is that if it is so evil to have preachers do what is done every Sunday in certain denominations, why is it that nothing was done about it until LBJ in the 1950s? Up until that time the government allowed preachers freedom of speech. And how is the government going to monitor all the speech in all of the churches?

We have heard a lot about separation of church and state but that phrase is not in the constitution as I took pains to point out by quoting the first amendment above. The first amendment deals with free speech, preventing Congress from stopping freedom of religion and preventing Congress from having a state church.

Thomas Jefferson said that churches had a high wall around them legally in order to keep the government out. It is the government here that is the destructive monster that wants to limit Christian freedoms. And it is mostly the liberals here that want to use the government to limit what is said in the church.

If you don't like what your preacher says, you should find another place to sleep on Sunday morning.

 

I couldn't agree more, and thank you for that Amos reference.

It is amazing to me how the left has succeeded in compartmentalizing and segregating Christianity in the public forum.

 

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[Rocko9]
Is that what you do in Church on Sundays,CMG? What you want is to sleep during the time when scripture is being preached on but prefer the discussion of politics over God's own words.Good luck with your liberal witch hunt,CMG.

 

Rev 2:6
The Loveless Church 6 "But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

 

Rocko, where we differ is that you want to use the government to monitor the speech of preachers. You yourself should be the monitor. If you don't like the preacher, get up and find another church. Until Lyndon Baines Johnson in the 1950s, preachers were free to say whatever they liked. So we got along just fine from 1776 until the 1950s.

The churches most involved in political speech and practice are Democrat churches. It is impossible to enforce the law or stop these practices.

Therefore, it is a corruption of justice to use the law against preachers who are against abortion or who say that same-sex advocates are perverts (as my preacher says).

The only time that the government has a right to stop speech in churches is when the church advocates the violent overthrow of the government.

The law enacted by Lyndon Baines Johnson against his non-profit enemies in Texas should be repealed.

 

CMG, you are [personal attack snipped] to see the difference.
You equate God's perfect will to the same level as the Constitution. The constitution is a document that was written by our founding fathers, not perfect but the best we can do from a humanistic standpoint. What I am saying is we should respect God's will and respect and revere our Church as being God's House.
As for monitoring, I'll just leave that up to God.
You would have never been a very good Levite Priest,CMG.You wouldn't have lasted one time in the Tabernacle in the O.T. days.

[ November 07, 2005, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]