Who here thinks babies go to heaven ?

I'm not kidding, and that's exactly what I'm saying (why are you yelling?). Acts 4:12 says "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." This is true for all men, for all time including David, Abraham, Adam, etc.

Jesus Christ is the types and shadows in the OT (Luke 24:44, Romans 3:21-22, Hebrews 1:1-3). The jews celebrated the passover annually to keep them focused on the One who was to come to die for their sins (1 Corinthians 5:7, Hebrews 11:28, Hebrews 11:39-40). I like Hebrews 10:1 specifically "The Law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming, not the realities themselves." Noone in the OT was saved by the law or declared righteous by it (Romans 3:20). Paul also points to Abraham that faith alone saves. Faith in what? In the only name under Heaven by which we can be saved! (Romans 4:3, Genesis 15:6, Galatians 3:6-9

Oh, really?

What is it you think the passover was for?

Paul seem to differ. "Abraham BELIEVED...and it was credited to him as righteousness." Please read the above scripture.

 

rjprince, I went to your church's homepage http://www.bereachurch.org and under "what we believe" you state that salvation is found in none other than Jesus Christ. How, as a pastor, can you then state (scream) the following?

 

BURN, BABY, BURN! </font>[/QUOTE]There are no babies burning in hell, you [pretty accurate assessment deleted]. Only spirits.</font>[/QUOTE]Grieving parents of the world, come and drink! Is this a great religion, or what?

 

I can live with that. =)

Thank you for sharing

 

Ive always been taught that "Christ" was Jesus' title. The disciples called Him THE Christ, when first having met Him they went and told others by saying they had found "THE Christ". I don't know if it means exactly the same thing, but itsn't it equivalent to "Messiah"?
So by believing on the fact that a Messiah would come aren't the OT saints then believing ON The Christ?

 

Christ anointed, the Greek translation of the Hebrew word rendered "Messiah" (q.v.), the official title of our Lord, occurring five hundred and fourteen times in the New Testament. It denotes that he was anointed or consecrated to his great redemptive work as Prophet, Priest, and King of his people. He is Jesus the Christ (Acts 17:3; 18:5; Matt. 22:42), the Anointed One. He is thus spoken of by Isaiah (61:1), and by Daniel (9:24-26), who styles him "Messiah the Prince." The Messiah is the same person as "the seed of the woman" (Gen. 3:15), "the seed of Abraham" (Gen. 22:18), the "Prophet like unto Moses" (Deut. 18:15), "the priest after the order of Melchizedek" (Ps. 110:4), "the rod out of the stem of Jesse" (Isa. 11:1, 10), the "Immanuel," the virgin's son (Isa. 7:14), "the branch of Jehovah" (Isa. 4:2), and "the messenger of the covenant" (Mal. 3:1). This is he "of whom Moses in the law and the prophets did write." The Old Testament Scripture is full of prophetic declarations regarding the Great Deliverer and the work he was to accomplish. Jesus the Christ is Jesus the Great Deliverer, the Anointed One, the Saviour of men. This name denotes that Jesus was divinely appointed, commissioned, and accredited as the Saviour of men (Heb. 5:4; Isa. 11:2-4; 49:6; John 5:37; Acts 2:22). To believe that "Jesus is the Christ" is to believe that he is the Anointed, the Messiah of the prophets, the Saviour sent of God, that he was, in a word, what he claimed to be. This is to believe the gospel, by the faith of which alone men can be brought unto God. That Jesus is the Christ is the testimony of God, and the faith of this constitutes a Christian (1 Cor. 12:3; 1 John 5:1). Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary.

 

Hello Ray,

You are correct. In trying to be concise I did not make everything as clear as I probably should have. We are commanded to repent and believe, and are responsible to do so. I believe that babies do that even though their repentance and faith cannot be expressed in the usual ways that we express repentance and faith. Sorry for being unclear.

 

But the OT Jews did not know that Jesus would be the Messiah. I don't think they really had put all the pieces together yet, either. How could they? The prophecies are scattered throughout the OT scriptures and it would have been very hard for anyone then to know exactly what Is 53 meant.

When the Bible says that Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness, it's because he believed in God, not Christ, whom he did not really know enough about to believe. It does not say Abraham believed in the Messiah or the coming of the Messiah, but that he believed God and what God told him. By believing in the true God in the OT, one was saved by faith.

After Jesus came and showed he was the Messiah, and specifically said that one must believe in him to have eternal life, then it is Jesus that must be believed in. We can only know God through Christ now that Jesus has been revealed as the Messiah.

 

Marci, Acts 4:12 "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Those in the OT are not excluded from this. As I posted to rjp...Jesus Christ is the types and shadows in the OT (Luke 24:44, Romans 3:21-22, Hebrews 1:1-3). The jews celebrated the passover annually to keep them focused on the One who was to come to die for their sins (1 Corinthians 5:7, Hebrews 11:28, Hebrews 11:39-40). I like Hebrews 10:1 specifically "The Law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming, not the realities themselves." Noone in the OT was saved by the law or declared righteous by it (Romans 3:20). Paul also points to Abraham that faith alone saves. Faith in what? In the only name under Heaven by which we can be saved! (Romans 4:3, Genesis 15:6, Galatians 3:6-9

 

Why did John the Baptist leap in his mother's womb when Mary came to visit?

 

I think the OT is pretty clear that the Jews celebrated Passover to commemorate their deliverance by God from Egypt. The NT passages you quote there were not known by them. Yes, that deliverance was a picture of God's plan of redemption which would be fulfilled in the Messiah, but they did not know much about this. They did not know the Jesus story! Show me where in the OT the Jews were told to believe in the Messiah. They were told to believe in God.

How did Moses and the Jews delivered from Egypt know about the cross?

Yes, I know the law was a shadow of things to come but the Jews did not know about Jesus. I also realize no one is saved by the law. They were saved by faith in God, which I made abundantly clear in my previous post.

The scripture says that Abraham believed God. Abraham did not believe in Jesus to be saved; he believed in God. But since we have a Trinitarian God, God the Father saved him because faith in the Father is faith in the one true God. However, since Jesus has been revealed in the flesh, salvation must be in him.

 

Yes I bleive that babies go to Heaven. I think children are safe until they reach the age of accountability(which is different for all children)

 

Men are souls, actually. Gen. 2:7.

But that's beside the point. All the infants slaughtered through abortion, where are their bodies? Have they been resurrected yet?

So whether they're in heaven or hell, it's their spirits.

 

Let's baptize them, then. Since they are recipients of the Spirit of God (Rom 8:9) as we are, who can deny them water that they be baptized?

 

RFW, you don't get what I'm saying. I understand all what you say above, that the shedding of blood at the OT sacrifices pointed to Christ, but the OT people didn't know that. They didn't think, "This is foreshadowing a Savior who will shed his blood die on the cross for us." They didn't know about that. We are looking back at the OT after the revelation of the NT. They did not have the revelation of the NT!

We are only told in the NT about the sacrficies foreshadowing the death of the Messiah. This was not clear at all to the OT people. They did not know that Jesus was going to be the Lamb of God.