Who here thinks babies go to heaven ?

That's not what he said. He said, "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."

He didn't say that either. He said, "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein."

Adults are indeed included in the phrase "of such is the kindgom of God."

He also said, "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

3) We are born with a sinful CONDITION that can only be Changed by Gods spirit. And the ONLY way that is done is. Mark 3:28-29 Through accepting the gospel. Babies and mentally handicaped people CANNOT do that. So their sin is automatically forgiven.

4) When the disobedient Hebrews refused to cross over into the holy land, a TYPE OF HEAVEN, God condemned them all to die, except: “Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it” Deuteronomy 1:39. So here God himself says that there is an age before a person has knowledge of right from wrong. This is the age of accountability. Quote from One Of His Sheep

So the age of accountability is 21? Not even the Jews saw this passage as some kind of age of accountability teaching, making, as they did, the age of adulthood 13.

Correction, they did not refuse to enter in, it was impossible for them to enter in because of their unbelief.

5)A loving God would NOT send innocent babies and retarded people to HELL !

Where does it say that in the Bible? But you yourself said that babies aren't innocent. They are born condemned because they have the sin nature.

No wait, they're born saved because they have God's Spirit, which, as you stated, is the only way to overcome the sin nature.

No wait, they're not born saved...

But if they're not born saved, they must be born condemned, unless they need no salvation, and are born with spiritual life already. But you already stated that wasn't true.

Do you really know what you're talking about, or is this just a bunch of wishful thinking on your part?

 

Which being interpreted meaneth, "No I really don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm really ticked off that you pointed out my contradictions, my misreading of the Scriptures and my wishful thinking."

 

You're the one that resorted to personal attacks. I'm just trying to get a solid answer from you.

If babies aren't born saved, then in what condition are they born?

 

Babies aren't born saved. However, babies are saved upon death, as is any person who in his/her life was not provided with the opportunity to reject the gift of salvation. This is, however, strictly my opinion. I can find no scripture that directly affirms or denies it.

 

Now there's a straight and honest answer. Why couldn't you do that, RFW?

 

You didn't say it was strictly your opinion. You presented as dogma.

Anyway, now that you've conceded that this is simply your opinion, there's nothing more to say.

 

Amen Aaron. Agree with you here, but I may be putting words into your mouth, as you posssibly do not agree completely with what follows. These tidbits of information are just a little out of reach for so many Christians. They seem to think they have always been God’s children.

It is very hard to accept that Jesus didn’t come for them (we heathen)the first time, and is frightening to believe that they have been told all their lives, and taught we are somehow attached to those in other dispensations. But the tradition of man always holds sway over the majority. It scared me almost to death when I was allowed to see this. Our salvation becomes so much more real and amazing for He didn’t have to include us (me), but He did. It simply knocks you to your knees when He says to us, “by the Grace of My Father He NOW allows you to come to Him through me”.

If He had not spoken from heaven telling the Gentiles they could Now Come Through Him to the Father for their salvation we would be headed for the lake of fire, or be servants to the Jew forever, while they served their God. Of course we do know however this was always in the plan of God to include us, but NNE knew this before Damascus Road. It was an impossibility, but it seems almost all just will not completely accept His gospel to Paul.

As for the “infants”, of which we all are. God knows His own and those that will be His, for He chooses. And who does He choose but those that come to Him (Nathaniel –John 1:47) because He knows them; or those He draws and they follow Him – John 1:37. Christian faith, ituttut.

[ September 12, 2005, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: ituttut ]

 

I don't think the sin nature is in the blood. Where do you get that from, RFW?

The sin nature is the tendency to sin and is inherent in our very being -- mind, flesh, spirit, emotions. We have a bent toward sin - that is the sin nature. It has nothing to do with blood.

 

JohnV, your statement is partly what I was thinking of when I started the thread on Jesus as the only way.

Do you believe Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. who do not hear the gospel will go to heaven?

 

If a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc, has never been presented with an opportunity to reject Christ's gift of salvation, then their fate is the same as babies. If a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc, has been presented with an opportunity to reject the gife of salvation, then they will not be saved. Again, this is strictly my opinion. I can find no scripture that directly affirms or denies it.