Patriotism

"How many of the wars waged in the Old testament "would be considered just wars by your standards?

WW2 was a just war from our side.


"Is there even anything such thing as a "Just War?"

Yes

 

Ditto except I served 16 years.


I am a combat veteran and have the dreams to prove it. I was awarded the silver star for events that took place in 87. I have killed others in the service of my country and would not change a thing if I had to do it over again.
With all of that the thing that hurts the most is our elected officials in Washington ignoring and treating our Constitution like it was toilet paper. I have defended it against all enemies foreign and shall use my voice, my pen, and my vote to defend it against all enemies domestic (liberalism).

 

A person who won't stand for something will fall for anything.

 

How do you figure?

 

Patriotism has nothing to do with anyone person who is born in it. It is not arrogance, or hostile pride.

But it is a personal recognition of the many wonderful things that make our country so great. Patriotism looks past what is wrong and is humbled by all that is right and good about our country.

Criticism on a continuous level is discouraging, ungodly, and without merit. There are those who criticize our great Nation, The United States of America, because of our strenght, wealth, and moral stance on a great many issues.

If you are not patriotic about your own country how sad for you. If you do not like America then go home and stay away. We do not owe you anything and you do not owe us anything.

Many on the outside have a passionate agenda to change the way we manage our lives in America. It is the continued Communist movement. Today it is called "Socialism" but you see there is no difference between the two. When you line up the agenda of Socialism with the agenda of Communism they compare in the same way.

Communism is taught in our places of higher education, fills our legal defense organizations(ACLU), and is in our halls of congress. They think they are on the move but do not understand that within the boundries of Communism there can be no freedom. It is restrictive, enslaving, evil, without moral value, and worthless.

If you do not like our patriotism, if you do not like our flag waving, if you do not like our pride, and our success then go else where. I will fight against Communism, flag burning, federal health care, federal I.D.s', abortion, homosexuality, sex education, terrorism, illegal aliens and all that opposes God.

I love my country and all that makes her great.

 

Wow! I fail to see how supporting universal health care, sex education, and equal rights for all opposes God. What a narrow view of patriotism. A patriot doesn't say "My country, right or wrong", but rather "My country, I will work to defend her and make her better". Revmitchell, your vision of America doesn't sound like Communism, but rather the Third Reich, where the government fervently fought against those same things you list.

 

Communist Goals (1963)


Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35
January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals

EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Thursday, January 10, 1963



Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

 

Yeah, some Florida congressman from the McCarthy era.

 

It does not sound like you are asking about patriotism. It sounds like you are wanting to know more about loyalty.

Everyone has their own definition of each.

Standing up for the one's under the crush of the dictator's boot.

Standing firm in the word of Christ.

It sounds like two different things to me, but I know this - I can each better because I live in a country that allows both.

 

Murdering unborn children is in direct opposition to God. Forcing me to work and then take my hard earned money away from to to give to someone else so they can have health care they did not work for is in opposition to God. Indoctrinating our children with sexual information, giving them the idea that "Hey your going to do it anyway so here is a condomn" in other words condoning sex outside of marriage and without the consent and approval of the parents, and without the atmosphers and counsel of the bible opposes God.

Patriotism does say my country right or wrong I am proud.

"Narrow minded", Universal Health Care, Mcarthyism, Third Reich, are all words used by communists to demonize those of us who will stand up for traditional and biblical values, which communism is in direct opposition to.

 

DISCLAIMER: Not all my original words but my wholehearted belief.

I am a Patriot. I am a US Marine. I have served in peace time and war. I watched the Berlin Wall crumble under the weight of those who claimed the freedoms I defend. I survived many missions and battlefields from Haiti, Iraq, Somalia, Yugoslovia, Kosovo, Afghnaistan and Iraq (again). I am in love with the idea of the United States as set forth in the Declaration of Independence, the Gettysburg Address and the preamble of the Constitution. I am encouraged by the procedures of justice that guide the activities of the United States as they are set forth in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I am inspired by the kind of nation we can become when I read the words of Lincoln’s second inaugural address or Martin Luther King, Jr.’s “I Have Dream” speech. I am humbled by the ability of so many Americans to serve others who are in the throes of life’s chaos; the work of firefighters and the police at the World Trade Center is exemplary. As well as the duty of some of our nations brightest and best young people serving in our Armed Forces today through out the world. The dedication and steadfastness to go to locales that care neither what our race or nationality is but whether we can feed or heal their children.

My Ancestors came to the United States as immigrants from Germany and chose to be identified as Americans, not Germans living in America. My American Ancestors fought against my German Ancestors because they believed in this country and disavowed the activities of their old country. I have lived in 31 different cities and towns throughout the Southeast, Midwest, and even the West Coast. I have traveled widely throughout our own country, and the breadth of the landscape, the nobility of our mountains, the vast majesty of the Great Plains, the quiet mystery of forests, the energy of our cities and the great reach of our seacoasts move me. I have lived in Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. I have traveled to many countries and have come to appreciate these lands and their particular glory, as well as the insights of their people, commerce, religion, art and community life. I am a better person because of what other people in other lands have taught me.

Nevertheless, I am always delighted to come home to this country. I am well aware of the glaring deficiencies of the United States: the awful imbalance of what is part of our perceived rights and what is right; the frightening specter of hatred and racism that seems to lurk everywhere, ready to strike; our insatiable capacity for self-indulgence as manifested in a consumerism gone haywire – one that has us investing more in cosmetics and professional sports than we do in the education of our children; our claim to be a religious nation with less understanding of God yet with more open and rampant sin. In spite of these real and urgent problems that we face as a people, I believe our intellectual, moral, political, spiritual capacity to respond to these problems in a just and humane way is abundant. To solve all of these problems we just need to get people's life and heart balanced. As Proverbs 4:23 tells us the issues of life are out of the heart and happily I serve the best 'heart surgeon' around!!

 

My, oh my, where to begin.

Putting aside abortion, because I don't see it as a binary issue, and I imagine you do, nor do I want to derail this into yet another abortion thread.

As for health care, you already have your money taken away in taxes to pay to health care of the indigent. You are paying more than you would with a system of universal coverage. Why? Because under the current system, the poor among us, including the working poor, end up waiting until they are REALLY sick, instead of catching things when they are easily treatable. Who pays? You and I. Putting money aside for a second, it is not a compassionate nation, nor one in line with the teachings of Jesus, that doesn't care about those less fortunate in our society. Those who have greater blessings have greater responsibilities. Not all the uninsured are lazy and not wanting to work. Many DO work for small employers with no healthcare and minimum wages. Many are children. Your argument holds no water, fiscally or in terms of compassion.

Sex education...Ideally it should be done by parents, but it IS biology, it is sociology and it is part of life. The alternative is sexual ignorance. In the jurisdictions I know about, the students must have parental approval to attend. Have you ever been to a sex ed class? It is not, "You will do it anyway, so here's a condom".

However the ideal is abstinence before marriage, but the world is not ideal. Many kids WILL have sex despite family and church. I would rather a child be as safe as possible rather than have a much greater chance to get an STD or get pregnant, than to at least be as safe as one can make them. Ignorance leads to AIDS, Gohorrhea, Syphillis, HPV, genital warts, cervical cancer, herpes, and unwanted children. If a person is already equipped with a weapon, they can be taught to keep it holstered, but if they DO decide to use it despite the warnings to the contrary, they need to know how to use it as safely as possible.

As for McCarthyism, if you think it wasn't real and wasn't a great evil witchhunt, then that is sad. Many innocent lives were impacted by Joe McCarthy and the House Unamerican Activities Committee. Your fear of communism is sad, when that boogeyman is not the great threat we face as a nation. Communism as a totalitarian governmental style will ultimately, and probably gradually fall to the forces of a global economy. Communism as a social and economic system is also an abject failure. It is using a broad brush to paint every social program as "communist". Our postal service is socialized. Our roads are socialized. Our national parks are socialized. Pure socialism gives no individual responsibility or motivation; pure capitalism is heartless and lacks compassion, ending up with wealth concentrated in the top few percentiles of a nation, ending up in rule by the rich, to the detriment of the working class. Revmitchell, we definitely disagree!

 

Please show how slavery & taxes are in opposition to God.

 

I do make a disctinction between someone who can't provide (sick, elderly, handicapped, etc.) and an able-bodied fella who simply sits around because he's lazy.

Here's a verse for the latter:

1 Timothy 5:8 (NAS)

But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 (NIV)

For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat.

I object to a system of government that rewards slothful behavior. Ours does, quite a bit.

 

And on the subject of unbridled capitalism leading to greed and corruption, we need look no further than:

WorldCom
Enron
Adelphia
Qwest
HealthSouth
and on and on it goes.

 

MP, your response is excellent, as usual!

Especially this:

"Pure socialism gives no individual responsibility or motivation; pure capitalism is heartless and lacks compassion, ending up with wealth concentrated in the top few percentiles of a nation, ending up in rule by the rich, to the detriment of the working class."

 

Because I stand against something does not provide evidence of fear. It is easy to philosofically idealize anything. It is much harder to stand by the black and white Word of God on these issues.

Our standard of morality and justice must come from Gods word alone. To many people try to maintain standards beyond or outside of that. Any standard we can come up with outside of Gods' word falls short of just who God is. Isaiah 64:6 ...All your righteousness are as filthy rags...

It sounds nice to say "I just want to make things better". But when the so called "better" steals the innoccence from our children, then who's better is it?

When the so called "better" works to reward those who make a mockery of all that so many men and women have fought and died for then I do not get fearful, I get fired up.

You see every system under the sun can be abused. Capitalism, socialism, communism, the justice system, and even our churches. Changing the system is not the answer when the foundations of that system are rooted in biblical principles.

Our nation was founded on these biblical principles. We have had our problems but that doesnt negate the fact that God has been at the fore front of almost everything we have stood for.

Would the heros of the past look at what communism is doing to this country and say "My sacrifice was worth it?"

Our country was founded on biblical principles and self government. Socialism, communism what ever you want to call it takes away self government and places all responsibility in the hands of the government.

No one in the past sacrificed their lives for that. Those who want to go beyond the very reason our past heros fought and died for leave their sacrifice empty and vain.

Moving our country from the original foundations and biblical values is not the answer. Standing strong in the face of opposition is.

God Bless

 

Revmitchell, the U.S. was founded upon the Constitution, not the Bible. We got rid of the idea that God rules over us by giving the divine right to kings and queens. This is a government of "We the people". Can you show me where the Bible is referenced in the Constitution?

 

The declaration of Independence sure did...

Granted by Our Creator certain inalienable rights...

And, maybe to you the Constitution is a purely secular document...

But, the vast majority of the people who took part in it were genuine Christians.

Many prayers were prayed for divine guidance in it's writing...

And, you're wrong MP...

The US was founded on the Bible...

The Constitution was written as a legal document framing it's operations...

On the Freedom to worship Our Christian God without a state churches oversight...

If you *really* want a truly Secular State there are many in this world to choose from...

None of them compare to the True Freedoms granted in the US Constitution written by Men with a heart Towards God and a Knowledge of what true freedom was and is...

No Bible references?

They all knew that no human state could Grant the kind of freedom only God could in Jesus Christ...

But, they *could* and *did* form a union that was, until the ACLU, conducive to a person finding that True Freedom..

Mike Sr.