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The Second Coming Of Our Lord Jesus Christ

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Sep 9, 2005.

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  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Comparing the rapture/resurrection (R) AKA: gathering
    with the Second Advent (SC): when Jesus comes
    to destroy the Antichrist and set up the
    Millennial Kingdom AKA: Glorious Appearance.

    1R. Jesus comes for His own ( given physical bodies)
    (John 14:3, 1 Thess 4:17)
    1SC. Jesus comes with His own (already have physical bodies) (Rev 19:14)

    2R. Jesus comes in the air (1 Thes 4:17)
    2SC. Jesus comes to the earth
    (Zech 14:4-5, Acts 1:11)

    3R. Jesus comes to claim His Bride
    (1 Thess 4:16-17)
    3SC. Jesus comes with His Bride
    (Rev 19:6-14)

    4R. end of the Gentile Age
    (Matthew 24:3, 24:31-44)
    4SC. end of the Tribulation Period
    (Revelation 19)

    5R. Tribulation period begins
    5SC. Millennial Kingdom begins

    6R. Saved are delivered from wrath
    (1 Thes 1:10, 5:9; Rev 3:10)
    6SC. Unsaved experience the wrath of God
    (Rev 6:12-17)

    7R. No Signs precede the Rapture
    (1 Thess. 5:1-3, Matthew 24:31-44)
    7SC. Signs precede the Second Coming
    (Luke 21-11-28, Matthew 24:21-30)

    8R. Focus: Lord and Church
    (1 Thess 4:13-18)
    8SC. Focus: Israel and kingdom
    (Romans 11)

    9R. World is deceived (2 Thess 2:3-12)
    9SC. Satan is bound (Rev 20:1-2)

    10R. No judgement mentioned on earth
    10SC. Follows the Tribulation period
    judgement and followed by the sheep/goats
    judgement.

    11R. Time of joy. (1Thessalonians 4:17-18)
    11SC. Time of sorrow. (Matthew 24:30)

    12R. relative peace and prosperity. (Lk.17:26-30).
    12SC. the worst war the world has ever seen. (Mt.24:21,22).

    13R. Christians are promised they will be delivered
    -- from the wrath to come
    13SC. Israeli are told to flee the wrath to come
     
    #21 Ed Edwards, Sep 10, 2005
  2. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Here's a couple more you can add.

    1. Rature, Jesus reaps
    2. Second coming, Angel reap.

    1. rapture, righteous leave the earth
    2. second coming, Unrighteous leave the earth. (angel reapers, wheat/tares)

    1. rapture, they go up.
    2. second coming, they go down.

    1. rapture, only saved see him
    2. second coming, whole world sees him.

    As you've post, the list is "LONG". [​IMG]
     
    #22 Me4Him, Sep 10, 2005
  3. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Amillennialists agree, there is no kingdom. But I must point out that while Mr Boyce says that all the dead will be raised up on the last day, my bible says different:
    Revelation 20:5
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    Clearly some people will be raised up at the first resurrection and some people will be raised up a thousand years later. So Mr Boyce is wrong.     </font>[/QUOTE]Please tell me what the Bible records as the FIRST and only resurrection to date.

    Also the Abstract of Principles is still in effect at Southern Seminary. Boyce was only one of three founders of the Southern Seminary, originally at Greenville, South Carolina, now at Louisville, Kentucky. The other two were John A. Broadus and Basil Manly, Jr., from which comes the name Broadman Press, so the Abstract of Principles is not simply an invention of Boyce.

    Also you ignored the teachings on the many Confessions of Faith that I presented which also teach a general resurrection and judgment. Do you suppose the divines who wrote these Confessions, as well as Boyce, Broadus, and Manly, were ignorant of Revelation 20:5?

    May I also point out that John 5:28, 29, which is clearly written to be interpreted literally, teaches a general resurrection and judgment. Revelation 20:5 is contained in an apocalyptic book written primarily in language which makes use of metaphors, similies, etc..     </font>[/QUOTE]I do not suppose them to be ignorant of Rev 20, just as you are not ignorant. They are just wrong, like you.
     
    #23 James_Newman, Sep 10, 2005
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Me4Him

    There is no such thing as understanding the pretrib rapture because it is false doctrine.
     
    #24 OldRegular, Sep 10, 2005
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Ed Ed and Me4Him

    Nothing either of you have posted above:

    1. Explains why you have departed from the Historical and Biblical Baptist Doctrine of the General Resurrection and Judgment.

    2. Proves that there is a nonsensical rapture. It cannot be established from Scripture but only in the imaginations of such as Darby and Scofield.
     
    #25 OldRegular, Sep 10, 2005
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    While I am at it I will present my understanding of dispensational doctrine [or Darbyism if you prefer] from the sources that I have read. I am sure that the Darbyites on this thread will take exception.

    Dispensationalism

    Dispensationalism as a system of Biblical interpretation was formally promulgated about 1830 by John Nelson Darby, a member of the Plymouth [England] Brethren. [Martyn Lloyd-Jones in his book, The Church and Last Things, asserts that Darby was influenced by Edward Irving, a charismatic Scottish preacher, who established a new church in London called the Catholic Apostolic Church. As reported by Lloyd-Jones [page 138] Irving was apparently the originator of ‘the secret rapture’ which is the bedrock of dispensational eschatology.] The dispensational system of interpretation, with its emphasis on Old Testament prophecy, began at a time when many of the established churches ignored Biblical prophecy. Darby’s emphasis on prophecy, therefore, captured the interest and perhaps the imagination of many. Darby visited the United States six times between 1859 and 1874 [John Newport in The Lion and the Lamb, page 100]. His teaching apparently exerted considerable influence on his contemporaries, particularly E. I. Scofield. The publication of the Scofield Reference Bible, which made the system of dispensational interpretation an integral part of the Bible notes, had a significant impact on the spread of dispensational thought.

    Charles C. Ryrie in Chapter 4 of Dispensationalism argues that the beginning of dispensational thought is much earlier. He asserts that Pierre Poiret, a French philosopher and mystic, published a rudimentary system of dispensations in 1687 and that Isaac Watts [1674-1748] developed an outline of dispensations that essentially paralleled that in the Scofield Bible, with the exception of the millennium. There is no indication, however, that either of these men believed that an intrinsic and enduring distinction exists between Israel and the Church which according to Ryrie [page 39] is the basic theological test of whether or not a person is a dispensationalist. The question is not whether there is a distinction between the nation Israel and the Church, there obviously is. The concern is the relationship between true or spiritual Israel, the believing remnant [Isaiah 10:20-23], and the Church.

    The dispensational view of the return of Jesus Christ is currently one of the most popular views in the churches [and perhaps outside the churches]. This view has been popularized by the Scofield Reference Bible and such popular novels as Hal Lindsey’s Late Great Planet Earth and, more recently, the Left Behind Series by Tim Lehaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. As indicated above, however, dispensationalism is a system of Bible interpretation of which eschatology is but a part.

    There are a number of basic propositions that characterize the dispensational system of interpretation of Scripture, as follows:

    1. Dispensational theology divides God’s dealings with humanity into a number of distinct ‘dispensations’. The New Scofield Reference Bible defines a dispensation as “a period of time during which man is tested in respect to his obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God” and distinguishes seven dispensations: Innocence, Conscience, Human Government, Promise, Law, the Church, and the Kingdom. The word dispensation comes from the Greek word “oikonomia” which means the management of a household or of household affairs. The word does not occur in the Old Testament and occurs only seven times in the New Testament. On four occasions it is translated dispensation and on three occasions it is translated stewardship.

    2. Dispensationalism teaches that an intrinsic and enduring distinction exists between Israel and the Church. “The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved, which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” [Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism] Charles C. Ryrie in his book Dispensationalism writes about the above statement [page 39]: “This is probably the most basic theological test of whether or not a person is a dispensationalist, and it is undoubtedly the most practical and conclusive. The one who fails to distinguish Israel and the Church consistently will inevitably not hold to dispensational distinctives; and the one who does will.”

    3. Dispensationalism denies that the church is included in prophecy. Rather, the claim is made that Jesus Christ came to establish the Messianic kingdom for the Jews, that they rejected Him, and that He established the Church instead [Herman Hoyt, a dispensationalist, in The Millennium, Four Viewpoints, by Clouse, pages 84-88]. The Church is often referred to as the ‘mystery parenthesis’ or “intercalculation?” form of the Kingdom; mystery in that there is no prophecy in the Old Testament regarding the Church and parenthesis in that God found it necessary to interrupt His program for the Jews because their leaders rejected Jesus Christ as the Messiah and He was unable to establish the Messianic kingdom.

    4. “The dispensationalist interprets the New Testament in light of the Old Testament.” [Herman Hoyt in The Millennium, Four Viewpoints, by Clouse, page 43] [Covenant theology interprets the Old Testament in light of the New Testament, which is consistent with the doctrine of progressive revelation, a doctrine that dispensationalists also profess to believe [Ryrie, Dispensationalism, page 31]. This emphasis of the Old Testament Scripture defines a very significant difference between the two theologies. There are numerous examples where New Testament writers give new meaning to Old Testament prophecy.]

    5. Dispensationalism insists that Scripture is to be interpreted literally. Charles C. Ryrie in his book Dispensationalism writes [page 147], “Consistent literalism is at the heart of dispensationalism eschatology.” However, the understanding of just what the literal method of interpretation varies greatly among dispensationalists.

    In discussing the dispensationalist insistence on the literal interpretation of Scripture, John P. Newport in The Lion and The Lamb, writes [page 96]: “This is particularly the case when interpreting biblical references to Israel. The term Israel must always refer to the actual nation Israel, ethnic Israel, the Israel that traces its physical descent back to Jacob. God called Jacob Israel. The term never refers to ‘spiritual Israel.’ All prophetic Scripture is to be treated in a similar manner. All prophecy must be fulfilled literally and in detail.”


    Dispensational Eschatology

    The major teachings of the dispensationalists on the return of Jesus Christ and the Book of Revelation are as follows:

    1. The dispensational approach to eschatology [the doctrine of last things] is founded principally on interpretation of the Old Testament [Hermon Hoyt in The Millennium, Four Viewpoints by Clouse, page 67, quoting from John F. Walvoord, The Millennial Kingdom].

    2. Dispensationalism teaches that the Church will be removed from the earth suddenly [by an ‘any-moment’ return of Jesus Christ] prior to the ‘so-called’ seven years of tribulation. It is also worth noting at this point that dispensationalist John F. Walvoord also writes in Major Bible Prophecies that the time lapse between “the Rapture” and the “second-coming” will be more than seven years [pages 283, 293], certainly not a literal interpretation of Daniel’s seventh week.

    3. Therefore, the Dispensationalist insists that only the first three chapters of Revelation are applicable to the Church. Chapters 4-19 describe the events that occur during the seven years of tribulation and are thus of no concern to the Church but of primary concern to the nation Israel.

    4. At the beginning of the seven year period the head of the revived Roman Empire will make a covenant with the Jews [based on the dispensational interpretation of Daniel 9:27]. In the midst of this period this leader will break the covenant and ban sacrifices in the rebuilt temple. Intense persecution of the Jews will follow. During this seven year period the majority of the Jewish people will embrace Jesus Christ as the Messiah. Also vast numbers of Gentiles will be saved under the preaching of 144,000 Jewish missionaries.

    5. Dispensationalism teaches that at the end of the seven year tribulation period [seven years plus according to Walvoord] Jesus Christ will return to earth in power and great glory and reign for 1000 years with a ‘rod of iron’ from ‘David's throne’ in Jerusalem. During this period of time Satan will be bound and imprisoned in the bottomless pit. Those who enter the millennial kingdom will be believing Jews and Gentiles, all others will be put to death. Walvoord teaches in Major Bible Prophecies that David will reign as coregent with Jesus Christ in the millennial kingdom. He writes [page 393] “Though many have tried to explain away this passage [Ezekiel 37:24-25], it obviously requires the second coming of Christ, the establishment of David’s kingdom on earth, the resurrection of David, and David’s sharing the throne of Israel as coregent with Christ.”

    6. Dispensationalism teaches that during this 1000 year period the Gentile nations will be subservient to Israel and that all people will come to Jerusalem to worship in the rebuilt temple through burnt offerings which are supposedly only ‘memorial in nature’. During this period people will be born and die, some saved and some not. [It is not clear how people are to be saved during this ‘Jewish millennium’. Salvation by faith seems meaningless since Jesus Christ is physically occupying the throne of David. Also no explanation is ever given as to how mortal man can live in the presence of Jesus Christ who has returned to reign in the full glory of the Godhead [Exodus 33: 18-23; Revelation 19; Matthew 16: 27; Mark 8: 38; Luke 9: 26; Revelation 1: 7]].

    7. During this 1000 year period the Church will apparently be suspended above the earth in the New Jerusalem described in Revelation 21. Some contend that the tribulation Saints and the Old Testament Saints will be resurrected and join the Church in the New Jerusalem.

    8. At the end of the millennium Satan will be released from the pit, he and his followers will suffer final defeat. Included among his followers will be people who are unbelievers? that are born during the millennium.
     
    #26 OldRegular, Sep 10, 2005
  7. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    You got your questions together years ago,
    and I just read some of them today? You expect
    way too much. Stick around for 3 years
    like DeafPosttrib has done and you might
    learn something?

    1. You have yet to show the
    Historical and Biblical Baptist Doctrine
    stand you say Baptists hold.
    You said nothing when i said that even if
    there was such a non-"pretribulation
    rapture/resurreciton doctrine" held that
    it was a case of error

    2. You have made no stand whatsoever.
    Quite franky,it is way easier to whinny NEIGH
    (NAY) than to say something positive.
    I have yet to hear enough of your doctrine
    to even be able to classify your beliefs.

    Here are the usual classifications:

    I. The overall view of Eschatology:

    FUTURIST - most N.T. prophecy is to happen
    HISTORIST - most N.T. prophecy is just the
    history of the church
    PRETERISM - the N.T. prophecy is mostly fulfilled already (Revelation is history)
    IDEALISM - N.T. prophecy is spiritual truths too deep for
    --- OldRegular and Ed to understand :(

    II. The relation of the Second Appearance
    of Jesus and the Millinnial Kingdom (MK)

    POST-MILLINNIAL - The Second Advent of the king will come when the church sets up a kingdom for Him

    PRE-MILLINNIAL - The Second Advent of Jesus will happen when Jesus supranaturally comes to set up a physical Millinnial Kingdom

    FULL PRETERIST - The Second Advent of Jesus and the MK have already happened (might have been spiritial)

    PARTIAL PRETERIST - A physical Second Advent
    of Jeus will happen at the end of the world,
    but the MK is a spiritual

    III - the relationship of the tribulation period and the rapture/resurrection

    PRETRIBULATION - the rapture/resurrection is
    before the whole 7-year tribulation period

    MID-TRIBULATION - the rapture/resuurection
    is at the Mid-tribulation crises

    PRE-WRATH - the rapture/resuureciton is
    just before the HEAVY wrath of God is poured
    out on earth

    POST-TRIBULATION - the rapture/resurrection is
    at the end of the Tribulation period ONLY

    If there are other eschatological views, you
    are welcome to list them in this topic.
     
    #27 Ed Edwards, Sep 10, 2005
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Thank you Brother OldRegular.

    While there are some true stuff in your post,
    i find i am not a Dispensationalist
    as you have described. I am not a Darbyite.

    I shall expount on my "dispensation" beliefs
    (i think the word 'dispensation' appears in the
    Holy Bible) what is in the Bible is what
    i beleive. I do know the Greek word translated
    in English as 'dispenation' is the word
    from which we get the English 'economy'.

    Here is some stuff i remember about God's economy:

    The blind see
    The halt dance like deer
    The deaf will sign their arm off -- oops,
    that is now - seriously: the deaf hear
    The Humor Impaired laugh a lot
    1 hour = 1 day
    1 day = 1,000 years

    But those must be some different dispensations
    from the one described by Bro_OldRegular.

    BTW, the rapture described in 1 Thess 4 & 5
    is loud enough to wake the dead. I don't
    teach no 'secret rapture'. The only ones
    who brind 'secret raputre' to this board are
    those who don't believe in it :confused:
     
    #28 Ed Edwards, Sep 10, 2005
  9. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Your statement is false.
    I don't have to prove your statement is false,
    cause you haven't proved it true.

    Come on, can we get down to specifics (as in
    your other posts) and leave the montras to
    be bleated by the sheep?
     
    #29 Ed Edwards, Sep 10, 2005
  10. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Ed,

    2 Thess. 2:1 does not saying there is 7 years apart between 'coming of our Lord Jesus Christ' & 'our gathering together unto him'. Your logical is fallacy. Clear, Paul tells us that our gathering together shall be AT the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ same time.

    Titus 2:13 does not saying there is 7 years apart between 'our blessed hope' & 'the glorious appearing'. Your logical is fallacy. Clear, Paul tells us, that our blessed hope shall be AT glorious appearing.

    Ed, how did you first heard rapture will be occur before tribulation period many years ago?

    Does the Bible actual showing us a clear verse or passage saying that the rapture shall be occured before tribulaiton period? Please give me ONE verse in the Bible saying that rapture will be occur before tribulation. Then I will believe Bible saying so. Please scripture. Thanks.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
    #30 DeafPosttrib, Sep 10, 2005
  11. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Here's what "MOST MISS".

    [​IMG]

    Since there are "TWO COMING" of Jesus, a single prophecy can/does have a "DUAL" Application, one "SPIRITUAL", one "LITERAL".

    "SPIRITUAL VISION" is required to "SEE" the first, as Peter saw/called Jesus the Messiah.

    And Jesus established the "SPIRITUAL KINGDOM", Church.

    Of course the next coming will be "LITERAL" or in the "Physical realm", not the "Spiritual".

    And Jesus will establish the "PHYSICAL KINGDOM" or MK.

    The promise to send Elijah was fulfilled in John the Bap.

    But Elijah will "literal" appear during the trib as one of the "TWO WITNESES".

    These same "Two witnesses" bore witness to Jesus on the Mt of transfiguration.

    Jesus said not a stone would be left on top of the next becasue they didn't recognize the "Day of the Lord's" visitation.

    And there's coming another "day of the lord" when he returns.

    Jesus revealed "JUDAS" as being the "SON OF PERDITION", both Jesus/Judas die and go to their respective place, Heaven/hell, both return, Jesus from Heaven, Judas from the "bottomless pit".

    The "ROMAN EMPIRE" will be revived as the Ten headed/toes beast.

    Jesus said, destroy his "BODY" and "IN THREE DAYS" it would be "Resurrected",

    He was "BACK ON EARTH" in 72 hours, but having been born/crucified in the evening of the "FOURTH DAY", makes three days foreward, the beginning of the "SEVENTH DAY" or MK when Jesus will be "BACK ON EARTH". (First resurrection) (day=1000 years)

    The parable of the "FIG TREES" (HIS/HER) narrow the "TIME FRAME" of all these events down to a "GENERATION".

    Mr 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

    "Preterist" only "SEE" the First coming, not the "Second".

    Most of the Church only "SEES" the second, not the first.

    "FEW SEE" both.

    This "list" is not complete, there are many other "DUAL APPLICATIONS" of prophecy.
     
    #31 Me4Him, Sep 10, 2005
  12. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Me4Him,

    'Fig leaves' of Matt. 24:32 is not speak of physical nation -Israel. It speaks of the signs, that we are seeing these are happening in our lifetime, show these that His coming draweth near.

    Your logical of dual comings is fallacy and flaw. You have no foundation or support from the Bible to apply your teachings.

    There is no hint of a verse telling us that there will be two future comings. If two comings, then Christ would have to come like as yo-yo's. That doctrine is fallacy and flaw.

    Early Church does not teaching on that in the first of 18 Centuries till Darby developed it, and they started to adopt his new treachings. They departed from the truth of Bible, and Early Church's statement of faith on second coming, and they follow new teaching of pretribulationism.

    I rather follow what the Bible saying about the second coming than listening to today's teachers and commentatories - Colossians 2:8.

    In CHrist
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
    #32 DeafPosttrib, Sep 10, 2005
  13. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    OK, I have your "opinion",

    and I did not say there are still "TWO FUTURE COMING", one has already passed.

    Now, Can you show me, "with scripture", where any one of the events will not occur as I described???

    You say "DARBY" started the "Rapture" "theory", but do you know that the "Saints" of Paul's time believed they had "MISSED THE RAPTURE", and Paul had to "correct them"???

    2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by

    our gathering together unto him,

    Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    Clearly the "RAPTURE" is being discussed here.

    Here's what Paul had to say:

    2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (Comforter) who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (Rapture)

    8 AND THEN (AFTER RAPTURE) shall that Wicked be revealed, (for the trib period) whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his (SECOND) coming:

    Evidently, Darby understood the scriptures. [​IMG]
     
    #33 Me4Him, Sep 10, 2005
  14. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    When i was a child i had a puzzle. Each piece was the shape
    of a State in the United States of America. (There were
    no Alaska or Hawaii pieces then).

    When i had children they had a puzzle. Each piece was the
    shape of a State in the USofA. (Their puzzle included
    Alaska and Hawaii).

    My child had heard of a city named "Detroit" but it wasn't
    on the Oklahoma Piece. He had heard of a place called
    Florida, but it wasn't on the Michigan piece.

    With each piece, there wasn't much of a picture of what
    was going on. But you put the peices together IN THE RIGHT
    ORDER and voila! -- there is a map of the USofA.

    (And the deluxe sets you can turn them over when you get
    the USofA together and you have the whole world in order also).

    DeasfPosttrib: //2 Thess. 2:1 does not saying there is 7 years
    apart between 'coming of our Lord Jesus Christ' & 'our gathering together unto him'.//

    The seven years comes from Daniel 9:27.
    The two halves of the seven years is found 1 verses in Daniel,
    4 verses in Revelation:

    1260 days
    42 weeks
    times, time, and half a time (1+2+½=3½)

    Daniel 9:27 does not say that the 7-year period ends with the
    coming of Jesus in Power and Glory to defeat the Antichrist and
    set up a 1,000 year-long Millinnial Kingdom of Christ. These events
    are taught in other verses.

    DeafPosttrib: "Does the Bible actual showing us a clear verse or passage
    saying that the rapture shall be occured before tribulaiton period?"

    No. There is not one verse that says it. With each verse, there isn't
    much of a picture of what
    is going on. But you put the peices together IN THE RIGHT
    ORDER and voila! -- there is a map of our future.
     
    #34 Ed Edwards, Sep 10, 2005
  15. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    #35 OldRegular, Sep 10, 2005
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Ed Ed

    Your problem is that your puzzle was created by the perverted imagination of John Nelson Darby. Scofield was seduced by Darby and then using his corrupted publication he seduced many other gullible people, just as Eve was seduced by Satan.

    Dispensationalism has dug itself into a hole and can't get out. Hyper dispensationalists have dug a little deeper. Fortunately some called progressive dispensationalists have realized they are in a hole and are climbing up the ladder of historic premillennialism to get out of the hole.

    In truth, though the eschatology of the dispensationalist is completely false, it is their doctrine of the failure of Jesus Christ in His mission that is most repugnant.
     
    #36 OldRegular, Sep 10, 2005
  17. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Me4Him

    Charts, Charts, Charts. Throw away your dispensational charts and rely on Scripture.
     
    #37 OldRegular, Sep 10, 2005
  18. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    You said this in a previous post:

    And then went on to explain that this is the "ONLY RESURRECTION", everyone at the "same time".

    So how do you account for the following verse:

    Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    It's clear in this verse that "SOME ARE RESURRECTED" and "SOME ARE NOT RESURRECTED" until the thousand years are finished.

    So, from whence cometh your doctrine of "ONE RESURRECTION"???

    Charts makes explaining much easier, less typing, and I'm "lazy". :D [​IMG]
     
    #38 Me4Him, Sep 10, 2005
  19. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    YEP.

    Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
     
    #39 Me4Him, Sep 10, 2005
  20. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    DEFTPOSTRIB


    I posted the following:

    I was "EXCLUDING" the "Rapture" in this statement,

    Resurrection, as used by Scripture, means to be "BACK ON EARTH", ALIVE".

    The rapture "IS NOT" referred to as a "Resurrection" because they are not "back on earth", but go directly to Heaven, when we return with Jesus to the earth is the "FIRST RESURRECTION, not the "SECOND".

    EVERY place resurrection is used in scripture, they are back on earth, alive.

    Hope that clears up any misunderstanding. :( [​IMG]
     
    #40 Me4Him, Sep 10, 2005
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