The Second Coming Of Our Lord Jesus Christ

Look at the "Feast day chart", all the events in the NT are following those "Feast", to the "DAY", beginning with the passover.

And they will continue until the end, the "feast of trumpets" is the end of the old year, beginning of the new year, from the 1-10th day, (rapture) followed by The "DAY of ATONEMENT", it begins on the 10th. (trib)

Knowing this, we know when the rapture will occur, but not the "EXACT" "DAY AND HOUR", which is "PRECISELY" what Jesus said.

But even his "Day and Hour" comment was a veiled referrence to "WHEN" it would occur.

Do you know the "JEWISH CUSTOM" for beginning the NEW YEAR?

Their calander isn't exact with the phases of the moon, so "TWO WITNESSES" must bear witness to the New moon before the Sanhedren, before the new years begins, and from year to year, no one knows the exact "DAY AND HOUR" these witnesses will appear.

Jesus's "Veiled" referrence.

The "old moon" (church) having passed, (rapture) and "TWO WITNESSES" bearing witness of Jesus, and Israel beginning to "preach the gospel" would be a NEW MOON, and the "New year" would be the beginning of Daniel's 70th week, with the Trib (10th) quickly following.

Get the picture??

Just as the Jewish marriage custom prefigures Jesus and the rapture, all these old custom "prefigures" scripture in some way, and some are very "Obvious".

Day and hour, agreed, but it will occur during the "Feast of trumpets", that the "Season" spelled out in scripture.

1. Scripture say "this generation" will not pass.

2. We're at the end of the six days prophesied.

3. Jesus promised to be "back on earth", "early in the morning of the third day", 5th, 6th, 7th, 18 years, or less, into a thousand years day is "early" in the morning of that day.

4. If "her branch" is the "last generation", then she can only be established as a nation within a generation of the end of the six days, 1948 is well within that time frame.
(A question Jesus refused to answer for the disciples)

5. Do you really believe "THIS GENERATION" can murder 50+ million babies and not "reap" what they've sowed???

The generation of Jesus's day didn't pass, and neither will "THIS GENERATION", that's scripture, we've got about six years, or less.

Did you know the "Rabbi's" are calling for all Jews to return to Israel, this coming new years, 5766, (Feast of trumpets) they say the Messiah will come.

This is based on a very ancient, predates Jesus, prophecy.

They say in the year 66 the messiah will come and reveal "secret revelations", never before revealed.

What better time for the AC to show up, fulfilling the prophecy, he wouldn't have to do much to convince the Jews he was the Messiah.

"THIS GENERATION" is 57 years old, and adding the number of man, 6, to the year=666, together they make up the year 5766.

I've seen how God can hid/reveal things much less obvious than this, one thing for sure, we don't have long to wait, and we'll all know, one way or the other.

Most people in studying scripture overlook old Jewish customs/prophecies, and that is a "BAD MISTAKE".

 

Short of Jesus himself walking up and telling you, I don't believe you would believe anyone else, regardless of what they said.

I think the point been made several times that Daniels book wasn't opened to pass generations, what God doesn't reveal to them, they aren't held accountable for it, however once the "knowledge" is revealed, then you have a choice, measure up or ship out.

Fifty years ago very few ventured into "Revelations", it was a book still cloaked in "mystery", today every "Tom, Dick, Harry", has an interpretation of it.

At the time of the end, the "WISE" will understand.

 

Amen, Brother Me4Him -- Preach it!

BTW, there is no need for you to repeat posts
that have been repeated by the original
poster.

 

Me4Him: //1. Scripture say "this generation" will not pass.//

Jesus said in Mat 24:34 (KJV1611 Edition):
Uerely I say vnto you, this generation shall
not passe, till all these things be fulfilled.

Here generation means 'Church Age'.
The word translated 'Generation' is
STRONG's

G1074
γενεά
genea
ghen-eh-ah'
From (a presumed derivative of) G1085;
a generation; by implication an age
(the period or the persons): - age,
generation, nation, time.


Me4Him: //5. Do you really believe "THIS GENERATION" can
murder 50+ million babies and not "reap" what they've sowed???//

Do you realise the arrogance of making the 3% of the world
that is American be THE WHOLE WORLD?

 

God said he was married to Israel, then made a wedding for his SON. (Mat 22)

And "BLINDED" Israel until Jesus came and got "HIS BRIDE". (church)

Thne he'll heal up the "breach" between him and Israel. (trib)

Without understanding the "TRINITY", you're not going to understand the Bible, that's the "bottom line".

 

God said he was married to Israel, then made a wedding for his SON. (Mat 22)

And "BLINDED" Israel until Jesus came and got "HIS BRIDE". (church)

Thne he'll heal up the "breach" between him and Israel. (trib)

Without understanding the "TRINITY", you're not going to understand the Bible, that's the "bottom line". </font>[/QUOTE]Amen, Brother Me4Him -- Preach it!

Six ways to loose a debate:

1. //Dispensational error is dispensatonal error no matter how it is presented.//

Using montra's instead of logic.

2. //I fail to see your point above just as I fail to see your point
in all the charts in "God's plan for the Ages".//

Intentional density (no matter what it said, one can't understand it).

3. //I have posted on a number of threads the Doctrines [See OP]
regarding the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ as they
have been held throughout Baptist History until some Baptists
were seduced by the Darby/Scofield error called dispensationalism
I do not believe that any dispensationalist has as yet given
any response to justify discarding historic, and most
importantly Biblical Doctrine, in order to embrace dispensational error.//

Repeated debating the thesis of the debate instead of the
details. Needs to get a sheep to do thier baahing for them

4. //Ed: Unfortunately the person quoted this does not understand that God
has three Kingdoms:

//1. the eternal kingdom of God in the heavenly relms
2. the 1,000 year physical kingdom of God (AKA: Kingdom of Chirst)
3. the eternal spiritual kingdom of God that dwells within a saved person//

someone else: //Ref your second kingdom:
quote:
----------------
2. the 1,000 year physical kingdom of God (AKA: Kingdom of Chirst)
----------------
The Apostle Paul tells us that we are already in the Kingdom of Jesus Christ//

Simplified: #3 is not #2.
Attempting to refute agument #2 by noting it is not the
same as argument #3???

5. //Colossians 1:13
13. Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

//Does this mean you have seen the light and are now an amillennialist?//

Non-sequituer -- not in logical sequence

6. //Ed you can be more wrong in more confusing ways than any
person on this Forum. Is it through years of practice
or does it come naturally?//

ad hominem -- attacking the person instead of the ideas

 

Amen, Brother Me4Him -- Preach it!

Romans 3:3 (HCSB = The Holman Christian Standard Bible):

What then? If some did not believe,
will their unbelief cancel God's faithfulness?

No matter how faithless the national Jewish Israeli
are, they cannot make God' unfaithful.
The two comings of Jesus, the Messiah, and the end of the Gentile
age are seperated by a Tribulation period. The purpose of this Tribulation
period is to Judge the evil gentiles and save (one Jew at a time) the
national Jewish Israeli. Praise God for his
mercy and grace on us lowly gentiles!

 

Ed,

Matthew chapter 24 say nothing about two comings. 'Generation' is speak to people & believers who is living in the last days, and in their age who shall see Christ coming in the clouds. Matthew 24 tells us, we must see the signs first come to pass and then face persecutions also. Christ tells us, He shall come immediately after the tribulation to gathering us together. Christ told us only one future coming at the end of the age. You cannot find two comings in Matthew 24, because Christ does not mentioned on them. He tells us, He shall come again after tribulation. It is so very clear posttribulational coming of Christ.

Mark chapter 13 and Luke 21 both telling the same thing.

You have to accept what Christ actual saying, and believe Him. Many baptists don't accept what Christ actual saying. Why not they tear Matthew 24 out of the Bible?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Actually, "Ignorance" of how/why the events unfold is why there's "disagreement".

When it's "PROPERLY" understood, there is no disagreement.



The "day of Christ" Jesus is the "BRIDEGROOM", coming only for his "BRIDE", the church. (rapture)

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (end of Church age)

The "Day of the Lord" is when Jesus "Physically returns to earth, this is the "end of the age/world", separation of "wheat/tares".

Mt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
(Tribulation period)

Mt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs,(AC) and false prophets, (calling fire down from heaven)

Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mt 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Read how "Revelations" describes the events, in "PERFECT" sequence with the other scriptures.

Re 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, (Cloud of witnesses, the saved) and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, (JESUS) having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. (Rapture)

Nothing else happens, over in the "twinkling of an eye".

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Not many realize the "rapture" is mentioned in "Revelations" as occurring before the tribulation.

The first angel starts the rapture, the second the tribulation.

Now if you'll read the Feast charts, you'll find the "Feast of trumpets", (Rapture)

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

occurs before "Israel's" "DAY OF ATONEMENT", the trib period.

Matt 24 is describing the period of time after the rapture, (end of church age, fulness of gentiles) then the trib.

Do you know "WHY" the church escapes the trib and Israel doesn't???

 

Bible does not promise us that the Church shall escape tribulation. Jesus Christ tells us, that we have to suffering tribulation, but be cheer, because He already overcometh them - John 16:33. Apostle Paul tells us, that we must go MUCH tribulation to enter into the kingdom - Acts 14:22. Apostle Peter tells us, that we ought to be suffer to follow Christ's example - 1 Peter 2:21; 4:12-16.

Last week, I rented a movie- "Passion of Christ". It inspired me so much. I looked at Christ, how MUCH he suffered by persecution. Aren't we better than Christ? Can't imagine HOW MUCH he was suffered for us. No doubt, I am sure that the disciple Peter saw Christ suffered on that day. Even, also John, the Beloved too.

While Christ was on earth, He told us, that we have to deny ourselve, and take up the cross and to follow Christ. -Luke 9:23.

Apostle Paul tells us, that we are appointed for tribulations - 1 Thess. 3:3-4, because Christ suffered for us, so, therefore, we should suffer for Christ, and to follow him. But, Paul tells us, that we not appointed for wrath - 1 Thess. 1:10; and 5:9, because we received salvation through Jesus Christ. What the wrath for? To punish people for sinning, wicked life, reject Christ, send them into everlasting fire at Christ's coming according 2 Thess. 1:7-10.

'Twinkling of an eye' is speaking of how quick our body shall changed into immortality at Christ's coming.

Revelation chapter 14 shows a very clear picture of a harvest same rapture is the only one coming at the end of the world.

Matthew 13:39-42, 49-50; and Matt. 25:31-33 both show clear picture of the harvest shall be occur at the end of the age. There is the only one harvest day atthe end of age, no other else.

Rapture is same as harvest. "Gathering together" is same as havrest.

Romans 11:25 talking about Gentiles are invited come into the tree, SO, all Israel shall be saved, that means, both Gentiles and Jews shall be saved- through Calvary according next verse - Romans 11:26.

Your charts is not clear prove, because these are not connect with any verses, also, your charts show of your logically, as what you seeing what you intepreting Scriptures seem try to prove us , that your charts support scriptures. But, your charts are flaw and logically. I rather follow what the Bible syaing than your charts. I do not agree with your charts.

Bible teaches us, there is the only one coming at the age. I do not believe Christ give us any complex or deep theology while he was taught on the end of the age according Matthew chapter 13, 24-25, and others. I believe Christ gives us simple and plain of his teaching about the end of the age. I agree and believe what Christ actual saying, I follow His word. Why cannot you accept Christ's clear teaching of Matthew chapter 13, 24-25, Mark 13, Luke 17 and 21 saying that He is coming again at once? We have to accept what He saying, and to follow his example, that He suffered for us, so we have to suffer for his sake.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

DeafPosttrib: //Bible does not promise us that the Church shall escape tribulation. Jesus Christ tells us, that we have to suffering tribulation, but be cheer, because He already overcometh them - John 16:33. Apostle Paul tells us, that we must go MUCH tribulation to enter into the kingdom - Acts 14:22. Apostle Peter tells us, that we ought to be suffer to follow Christ's example - 1 Peter 2:21; 4:12-16. //

Amen, Brother DeafPosttrib -- Preach it!

You statement speaks well of 'tribulation' measured in pain
and sorrow but does not speak of 'Tribualtion' measured in YEARS.

The Tribulation Period is God's plan to accomplish God's purposes
and has nothing to do with what you and i deserve or don't deserve.

DeafPosttrib: "Apostle Paul tells us, that we are appointed for tribulations - 1 Thess. 3:3-4, because Christ suffered for us, so, therefore, we should suffer for Christ, and to follow him. But, Paul tells us, that we not appointed for wrath - 1 Thess. 1:10; and 5:9, because we received salvation through Jesus Christ. What the wrath for? To punish people for sinning, wicked life, reject Christ, send them into everlasting fire at Christ's coming according 2 Thess. 1:7-10"

Amen, Brother DeafPosttrib -- Preach it!

Which has nothing to do with the Tribulation period when:

Rev 16:1 (KJV1611 Edition):
And I heard a great voyce out of the Temple,
saying to the seuen Angels, Goe your wayes,
and powre out the vials of the wrath of God vpon the earth

DeafPosttrib: //Your charts is not clear prove, because these are not connect with any verses, also, your charts show of your logically, as what you seeing what you intepreting Scriptures seem try to prove us , that your charts support scriptures. But, your charts are flaw and logically. I rather follow what the Bible syaing than your charts. I do not agree with your charts. //

Translated into plain English for Brother Me4Him:

Your charts don't prove anything cause you didn't show verse by verse
how your charts were made. However, if you write up in words what
your charts condense and show the verses, then I will not read it cause
it will be two complicated to read. The way i say things is what the Bible
really means and what you think the Bible says is all your own logic.

 

"Quite obviously", you don't understand why the church escapes the trib.

It's because Jesus bore the "STRIPES" of "OUR CHASTISEMENT" for us, by "HIS STRIPES", in "HIS FLESH", we are HEALED".

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Why does Israel enter the trib???

Ps 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:

Ps 89:30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, (AC) and their iniquity with stripes.

Note the "Stripes" in "THEIR FLESH", not Jesus's flesh.

Because Israel rejected Jesus, God uses the Antichrist as a "ROD" to chastise Israel, their being physicaly killed during the trib represents the "Stripes" in "THEIR FLESH".

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, (The Antichrist) the rod of mine anger, and the staff (leadership) in their hand is mine indignation.

The "ROD" God uses turns into a "serpent" just as Moses/Arron's rod turned into a "serpent" when "cast down to the ground".

Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Since Jesus has already been chastised for our sin, we (Church) literally "PASSOVER" the trib period. (pre trib rapture)

It's really simple to understand when you know the "what/why" things happen.

I'd recommend a study of the "feast days", they also explain this.

 

I hear you Deafposttrib, let me give it a try for ya:

Your chart doesn’t clearly prove anything, because they do not even connect with any verses you have presented; also your charts show how illogically you’re seeing the interpretations of the scriptures, and you seem to think it’s proving something to us. Plainly, the charts are not supported by the scriptures you’ve presented and are flawed and illogical. I’d suggest you follow what the Bible is saying instead of presenting these man-made fallible charts that don’t line up. In case this isn’t clear enough for you, I do not agree with your flawed charts.

 

Ben,

Why don't you try to read through Matthew chapter 24, to see yourself?

Christ tells us, these signs are happening everywhere in our present age. These will be fulfilled follow the cosmic disturbance at Christ's coming immediately after the tribulation. Clearly, His coming is only once by follow after tribulaiton. No way you can find a clear verse in Matthew chapter 24 saying that Christ shall come before tribulation.

I wish Christ might saying that He shall come again before tribulation to gathering us together in Matthew 24. But it is not find there. Should I being be complaint for face tribulation and persecution? No. I accept what Christ taught us, we should follow His example. Matthew 24:29-31 is the most clear picture of Christ's coming is posttribulational. Many baptists know Christ shall come after tribulation. Yet, they saying it is for Israel. Oh really? Show us where a verse saying there will be two comings for the Church, and then Israel in the Bible.

You yet prove us a clear verse in the Bible saying that Christ shall come before tribulation. Pretribulationism is a flaw and no evidence of Scripture to prove it. It is man-making doctrine. I rather follow what the Bible saying than what men saying according to Colssians 2:8.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

I know, I accept what I’ve been taught too-knowing of Whom I’ve been taught; you’d have to think all the warnings against being seduced and guidance of being prepared were for nothing. There’s a WHOLE lot I’d like to add to this discussion but I just don't have the time right now to start something. One of these days I’m going to help you pluck some feathers out of these Pre-tribber’s wings though!

Col 2:8 Amen!

 

Have you ever read the parable of the "Ten Virgins", when the "BRIDEGROOM" comes, he only take "HIS BRIDE", "That "WHERE I AM",.."THERE" you may be "ALSO", where did Jesus go???

In the rapture, Jesus reaps, the "RIGHTEOUS" leave the earth, Going up.

At Jesus's second coming, Angels reap, the "UNRIGHTEOUS" leave the earth, Going "DOWN".
(wicked cast into hell)

When Jesus returns his foot lands on My Olives, in the rapture, we meet him "in the air", not on earth.

Matt 24 was written for instructions to the JEWS, the earth isn't going to "Flee into the Mountains of Judea" at the ABOD. (Abomination of desolations)

The NT isn't written just to/for the church, but also those in the tribulations.

I "POSTED/PROVED" scripture for you explaining why Israel suffers the trib and the church doesn't, and I'd bet you never heard, or even thought of, that as being the reason.

If you don't "know it all", then why refuse to continue learning,

The "SPIRIT" will teach you things you don't believe, as a test to see if you will believe it, and people who are "dogmatic", fail the "test".