Featured In which verses does the NIV mess up the meaning?

Summary of thread:

1) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read "moved with anger."
2) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read "children of wrath."
3) 2 Thess. 2:13 to be saved should read "for salvation."
4) Titus 3:4 love should read "love for mankind."
5) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read "yet rich in faith."
6) Rev. 13:8 before should read "from"
7) Rev. 22:21 be with God's people should read "be with all."
8) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read "revealed in the flesh."
9) John 1:16 does not seem any more flawed than many other translations, what the text actually says is "And out of His abundance we all also obtained grace against grace."
10) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read "therefore"
11) 2 Thess. 3:6 who is idle should read "who leads an undisciplined life"
12) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person. ​

 

No, you cited eleven verses which you claim are inaccurate as rendered in the NIV. There has been no examination of your claims stating that you are correct in your assertions. MM agreed with some of your views. RSR and IntheLight differed with you on a number of your pronouncements. I agreed with you on two or three items. But the bulk of your complaints I have dealt with and you basically have had no substantive comeback. Back to the drawingboard you go. ;-)

 

12 and counting...

 

You are as hard to pin down as jelly on the wall. About two-plus years ago you argued for the opposite.

The NIV and some other translations have "teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ."

The verse is not universalistic. And it certainly does not counter the doctrine of the pervasive corruption of people.​

 

Yes, I believe the verse (Mark 1:41) should read moved with compassion. But that view is based on accepting the generally accepted variant reading. The NIV used the less accepted variant (moved with anger) and then mistranslated the variant as "was indignant." Since we are not clogging the thread with differing source text issues, I listed the mistranslation of the variant.

Concerning Colossians 1:28 two problems manifest themselves - (1) every man (or every person) appears three times, but was omitted once in the NIV translation. (2) Every man (or every person) highlights each individual, whereas everyone addresses a group. And I did not identify this problem Martin did.

 

It's Van vs. Van. You held to the angry Jesus view for this text a little more than two years ago.

The very same message is not compromised. The word everyone means each person. Perhaps you are forgetting basic English.

"It is he whom we proclaim as we admonish and wisely teach everyone, so that we may present everyone mature in the Messiah." (ISV)

"We proclaim Him, warning and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone mature in Christ." (HCSB)

 

Ah! That would be the 2011 NIV. As I said, I don't have one of those.

peripateo atakos means to walk in a disorderly manner. It is especially used to describe soldiers walking out of line. In v.11, Paul gives two examples of this: 'not working at all' and being 'busybodies.' To translate the expression as 'walking in idleness' or whatever is not a good translation.

The NIV1984 translation says, 'From the fullness of his grace we have received one blessing after another' My point was that where the NIV says 'grace' it isn't in the text, and where it is in the text, the NIV doesn't have it.
The 2011 version still isn't right IMO, but I haven't time to address it.

'Mature' is OK, but when God looks at Christians judicially He sees no sin for Christ has taken it all away (1 John 3:5). Therefore 'perfect' is probably better here. My real objection to the the NIV rendering is how it breaks up what Paul is saying and does away with his triple repetition of 'every.'
'Him we preach, warning every man, and teach every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus' (NKJV). Much better! Unless of course one is a raging feminist and cannot accept the age-old English usage of 'man' to cover both male and female.

 

Perhaps it is too much to expect folks to discern the difference between addressing a group and addressing the individuals comprising the group. Christ died for all mankind, not for the elect only. This is what scripture teaches over and over.

Summary, no matter how hard they try, they cannot defend the mistranslations identified in this thread. So they make non-germane assertions. You this and he that. But "deserving of wrath" remains a mistranslation. The omission of the third "every person" and addressing a group rather than individuals is a mistranslation. idol and disruptive is a mistranslation. So expect more misrepresentations to change the subject.

 

I agree with you that teleios has a wjde semantic range and by no means should always be translated 'perfect.' But in Col. 1:28 I think it is a good rendering for the reasons I gave above.

BTW, it's maybe worth mentioning that in 2:10, the word translated 'complete' in most translations is not teleios but pepleromenoi, 'filled once and for all.'

BTW again, how does one get a Greek font on this board? Is there an easy way?

 

NIV : brought to fullness
ESV : been filled
WEB : made full
Mounce,NRSV : come to fullness
GW : made you complete
Darby : are complete
NASU : made complete
CEB,NET,HCSB,ISV : have been filled

 

That is an idiotic statement. It is perfectly acceptable to not use "man" or "he" when reference is being made to people in general.
If you want to see real feminist versions then look at The New Testament and Psalms :An Inclusive Version (1995) and The Inclusive Bible (2007). Then come back to me and apologize. Your rhetoric is getting rather shrill and completely off the charts.

 

The forum rule about addressing the topic and not the poster seems to be being ignored. The idea that we should avoid the use of "you" in our posts. Here we get "you seem to be saying" followed by fiction, then "how many years did you..."

By the numbers:

1) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read "moved with anger."
2) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read "children of wrath."
3) 2 Thess. 2:13 to be saved should read "for salvation."
4) Titus 3:4 love should read "love for mankind."
5) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read "yet rich in faith."
6) Rev. 13:8 before should read "from"
7) Rev. 22:21 be with God's people should read "be with all."
8) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read "revealed in the flesh."
9) John 1:16 does not seem any more flawed than many other translations, what the text actually says is "And out of His abundance we all also obtained grace against grace."
10) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read "therefore"
11) 2 Thess. 3:6 who is idle should read "who leads an undisciplined life"
12) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person. ​

[/INDENT]

 

You are the only one advocating for your interpretation of the items above.

Although some here have argued for "everyone" three times in the verse --your rationale has not been embraced by anyone.​

 

Many translations read "for salvation" including the NASB. So I am not the only one advocating for that position.

A few translations do not include or italicize "to be" in James 2:5, so I am not the only one advocating "rich in faith" is a complement of those chosen. See (1) Berean Literal Bible, (2) NASB95, (3) NASB77, (4) KJV, (5)Douay-Rheims, (6) Darby, (7) Webster's, and (8) YLT.

Almost all translations read "from" instead of "before" (excluding the NIV, ESV and NLT) at Revelation 13:8

And again, many translations read "be with all" (or be with you all) at Revelation 22:21, See ESV, NASB, KJV, NET, GW, Douay-Rheims, Webster's, and YLT.

The claim that I am the only one advocating for these positions is without foundation.