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children of waco special
- Thread starter URGALPAL
- Start date
Can you just imagine the outcry if the republicans had been in power at the time? 
Also the infamous episode with Elian?
It's interesting that all these posters who want to be so critical of the USA never allude to either of those topics!
Also the infamous episode with Elian?
It's interesting that all these posters who want to be so critical of the USA never allude to either of those topics!
Although these kids were highlighted, and although the story is very difficult to even put into perspective, there are two points that might be made:
1. The fire was set from inside. It was the decision of Koresh and the followers to do what they did.
2. These kids who are growing up now are in the public eye because of the incident. Therefore they have received mountains of counseling and therapy and care. Please consider the thousands upon thousands of kids who do not have the benefit of that when their parents are killed
-- in war
-- in auto accidents
-- in murders
-- by diseases such as cancer and heart attacks and strokes
-- by drugs
and the list goes on.
Did the government do right at Waco? Considering that the very first time they tried to ask them to surrender their stash of illegal arms they were met with a firefight, perhaps someone would like to offer an alternative to the extended days of negotiations which took place before the final day?
Monday-morning quarterbacking is a help only for those who have to deal with a similar situation in the future. For the rest of us armchair critics, it is simply an exercise in ignorance and judgment. There are people we are ignoring who need help right in our own lives. Let us love our neighbors, as these are the folks the Lord has brought into our lives.
It the parents of the kids who were orphaned at Waco had been touched by Christians in their own neighborhoods, what a difference it might have made.
1. The fire was set from inside. It was the decision of Koresh and the followers to do what they did.
2. These kids who are growing up now are in the public eye because of the incident. Therefore they have received mountains of counseling and therapy and care. Please consider the thousands upon thousands of kids who do not have the benefit of that when their parents are killed
-- in war
-- in auto accidents
-- in murders
-- by diseases such as cancer and heart attacks and strokes
-- by drugs
and the list goes on.
Did the government do right at Waco? Considering that the very first time they tried to ask them to surrender their stash of illegal arms they were met with a firefight, perhaps someone would like to offer an alternative to the extended days of negotiations which took place before the final day?
Monday-morning quarterbacking is a help only for those who have to deal with a similar situation in the future. For the rest of us armchair critics, it is simply an exercise in ignorance and judgment. There are people we are ignoring who need help right in our own lives. Let us love our neighbors, as these are the folks the Lord has brought into our lives.
It the parents of the kids who were orphaned at Waco had been touched by Christians in their own neighborhoods, what a difference it might have made.
John Jacob
New Member
Wasn't David Koresh often seen in public places?
They could have arrested him then, but they decided to go all the way out to Mount Carmel to do that?
I do not think the government handled it the right way at all. Do they normally use tanks and military equipment on civilians?
They could have arrested him then, but they decided to go all the way out to Mount Carmel to do that?
I do not think the government handled it the right way at all. Do they normally use tanks and military equipment on civilians?
Bro. James Reed
New Member
Only when those civilians are loonies, have many weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition, and have formed a small army.
Oh and also, when they fire upon agents of the federal government.
Have you never seen the "tanks" that local SWAT teams have? Whenever there is a long stand-off with many people involved, they will use these vehicles to get closer and break down walls and such.
Bottom line, I don't think there were all that many options left. These Branch Davidians were all lunatics who were going to fight and die for their insane leader. I would put David Koresh right up there with Charles Manson. He was a madman that needed to be stopped. Of course, I think we could have done without the cover-up after the fact.
A friend's oldest son was one of the ATF agents shot in the raid on the Branch Davidian compound – he survived, but was wounded severely.
He was shot taking cover behind one of the ATF vehicles (Suburban?) and was actually shot by a armor-piercing bullet that went through part of the engine block and into his torso.
If the Branch Davidians were using firepower like that, a tank is certainly appropriate!
John Jacob
New Member
Did they ever publish a list of illegal weapons found? If so I would like to know about it. I agree; David Koresh was a raving lunatic along with all of those who willingly followed him. The children at Mt. Carmel that were murdered had no choice. Since when is it the federal government's jurisdiction to interfere with State and local affairs. The local authorities should have handled the situation themselves. Sending the feds in sets up the conflict for a war. If they had armor piercing ammuntion, why didn't they take out the tank? Why didn't they serve Koresh the warrant when he was in town? That would have avoided the bloodshed. Once again I would like to reaffirm that I have no sympathy for David Koresh, just for the innocent children who were murdered there. I also do not agree with an omniscient government.
True.
When it involves illegal weapons moved across state lines.
I doubt the local sheriff’s department had the capability to handle the situation on their own.
Why? Your statement would seem to only make sense to someone who has a real grudge against the federal government. I doubt they would have taken kindly to the local law enforcement branches doing the same thing. By the way, the ATF agents were based out of San Antonio and Dallas if I remember correctly. They were from within the state.
Probably much heavier armor. Tanks are much sturdier and harder than civilian vehicles.
Like at the Walmart or the Luby’s? Yeah, a takedown of a nut with a gun in town could never lead to bloodshed…
Furthermore, the evidence of the violations was at the Mount Carmel site.I have sympathy for all of them. Many of those who died were shot in the back of the head before the smoke and fire even reached them. (I know the medical examiner who did the autopsies.) Many of those people were simply deceived by Koresh and died for a lie. Koresh made the carnage happen.
I also do not agree with “Monday morning quarterbacks” who assume that the government would know that Koresh was going to start killing his people and set the fire that consumed them.
Did you expect Koresh to do it?
John Jacob
New Member
"Did you expect Koresh to do it?"
I'm not so sure Koresh did it. I do not have a grudge against the federal government. I just think it is ironic, that every time they involve their selves in civilian affairs, the civilians die.
I'm not so sure Koresh did it. I do not have a grudge against the federal government. I just think it is ironic, that every time they involve their selves in civilian affairs, the civilians die.
There’s plenty of evidence to show that he did and nothing but wild conspiracy theories to say he didn’t. Who shot all those people in the back of the head so that they were dead before the fire started? (No trace of smoke in their lungs although their bodies were horribly burned.)
The federal government handles “civilian affairs” everyday without anyone dying. Unfortunately there were a lot of apocalyptic rabidly anti-government groups to contend with in the 1990s. Mistakes were made and hard lessons were learned.
I saw the first half, not the second.
Why should they have arrested Koresh outside of the place? Why should they have arrested him at all? They needed evidence. They didn't go into the compound to arrest anyone, they went in with a search warrant to search the place.
They *could* have possibly fought the fire, but like the agent said he was counting on humans being humans and bringing their kids outside of a blazing inferno. How many of you would think the same thing? It's unthinkable that they WOULDN'T. What would you do if your kids were in a raging fire and you could simply walk them outside and save them?
In my mind they handled it more than appropriately. There's now way to foresee the future. The best one can do is judge human character, look at previous similar situations, and predict reactions based on that. In this case it didn't happen, they didn't react in a normal human fashion, even for brain washed cultists. Survival instincs and love of your children are very strong emotions that usually can override cult-teachings in a moment of crisis like that.
It's done, it's over, what had to be done was done and perhaps the next time it happens there will be a better outcome because of this experience, but it isn't a guarantee.
Gina
Why should they have arrested Koresh outside of the place? Why should they have arrested him at all? They needed evidence. They didn't go into the compound to arrest anyone, they went in with a search warrant to search the place.
They *could* have possibly fought the fire, but like the agent said he was counting on humans being humans and bringing their kids outside of a blazing inferno. How many of you would think the same thing? It's unthinkable that they WOULDN'T. What would you do if your kids were in a raging fire and you could simply walk them outside and save them?
In my mind they handled it more than appropriately. There's now way to foresee the future. The best one can do is judge human character, look at previous similar situations, and predict reactions based on that. In this case it didn't happen, they didn't react in a normal human fashion, even for brain washed cultists. Survival instincs and love of your children are very strong emotions that usually can override cult-teachings in a moment of crisis like that.
It's done, it's over, what had to be done was done and perhaps the next time it happens there will be a better outcome because of this experience, but it isn't a guarantee.
Gina