Courtship

Courtship is a very interesting subject. I personally have observed several instances, both successful and unsuccessful, where it was applied in a variety of forms. Where I come from, I'm afraid that much of what I have observed is a grossly exaggerated teaching that fathers cabbage onto as a new way to exercise their "power".

Here's my position on the matter:

I believe that as a woman's biblical position is under a man's authority, that a father is biblically obligated to control exactly who gets intimate with his daughter(s). The best way I've heard it explained is thinking of the parents as the gate-they decide who gets in and who doesn't, after which the girl is allowed to accept or refuse proposals of marriage from these young men.

Often these relationships will begin with discussions between the interested young man and the girl's father and upon approval the young man is then free to attemt to win the girls heart.

The father has the right to terminate the relationship but only under serious circumstances. I have seen relationships of this nature terminated indefinately once the two got attached to each other for reasons already known to the girls father prior to commencement of the relationship. This is utter foolishness.

Another thing I do not agree with is the control that families of the young man feel they have a right to. In the Old Testament, men are given the right to disannul vows committed by the women in their families, but never those of the men. This is not to say that the parents should not be involved-certainly their blessing should be sought after but the Will of God is often contrary to our own and to be sure, a man's(adult, that is) parents certainly cannot claim any right to ultimately decide his actions. Should anyone find biblical grounds for this position I should like to see them.

Another position that I disagree with is that a man should remain at home until he gets married, based on "a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife....."(forgive me if I quoted in error). Obviously this verse is teaching that a man must leave his father and mother and prove that he is responsible and capable of managing his own affairs before he can consider himself capable of supporting a family.

As you can see, I tend towards a more moderated version of the "courtship" rituals that amount to an unreal amount of man-made rules, found nowhere in Scripture; rules that have been formed in an over-correction of society's emotional, if not actual, fornication mentality. I most emphatically am not in favor of "dating" where young people develop intimate emotional relationships with absolutely no committment that can be terminated at the drop of a hat only to begin again with another person. Surely this is a precursor, and actually leads to actual fornication by developing a non-chalant attitude towards boy/girl relationships.

However, I feel that in order to curb this trend of our spiritually sick society outward rules and guidelines are infinitely inferior to Biblical instruction in creating relationships within a Biblical framework which so far, to my knowlege, has never been done. All we hear is a lot of hype and holler about these issues, but rarely any real Biblical teaching which is so essential for pure Christian living.

In conclusion, having said all this I feel that it's better, although frustrating, to be overcorrectional, than to have a worldly mentality when it comes to these relationships which, in many cases, will almost certainly lead to disaster at worst, and emotional infidelity at best.

 

I think it should basicaly be up to the parents of what their teenager is gonna do if they are still living at home. Do they want you in a dating or courting relationship? With my family they really didn't care, and I prefer some form of courtship.
Which would be if a young saved guy had interest in me {LOL highly unprobable!} he would, before speaking to me, go to my grandfather for permission. If my grandpa approved, and I also agreed then we'd see each other chaperoned. If we ever went anywere we'd be with another couple, and I'm very firm on NO touching what so ever. No kissing or hugging or handholding.
This is what I'd do, but not everyone shares those opinions, and I wouldn't expect them to. This is just what my preferance on this would be.
Dating is I supose ok as long as the couple keeps themselves pure and keeps their testimony and reputation in tact.
I would suggest which ever the couple does to lay down some guidelines first, and God should be the center of it.
I know some might think I'm being old fashioned, but that's just my take on it.
~Miss Abby
Proverbs 31:30

 

Pretty good plan, Abby-short and simple the way it aught to be.

It's a situation that is often made much more complicated than necessary, at least in the ones that I have observed.

 

I find no fault in kissing - not slobbery, sensual make-out sessions, just kissing. That's the farthest I think anyone should go before marriage, and not even that if they can't handle it.
Hugging? What's so wrong with an embrace? An embrace and nothing more?

 

InTheNameOFLove, that's why I said I wouldn't expect others to hold the same preferance. Some find nothing wrong with a peck on the lips or check or a hug, but I'm NOT at all comfortable with it!
See, the only guy that's EVER kissed me is my dad, and just on my check. I wasn't brought up to be a "touchy" kind of person. I only hug the ladies at church and my pastor cause he's like a grandpa, and I do kiss the ladies checks, but that's all I'm comfortable with. In fact after I got saved God worked with me for about a year before I was able to tell people I loved them. I knew I did in my heart, but I couldn't seem to get those words out! I don't know. Maybe I've got this fear of rejection thing, but I just wasn't rasied to touch and hug and kiss. I just wouldn't feel comfortable with it courting.
I also want to save that for my husband who ever he is. I want my first kiss to be my wedding day. That's just the way I am I guess. I certianly didn't mean to imply that you couldn't do those things. The only thing is, someone awhile back posted somehting that really made me think and it's stuck with me. She said something to the effect of "If you were married and your husband/wife was away for awhile would you kiss or hug another man/woman?" {outside of family, and prehaps folks at church}
My answer is a definate NO. And then they went on to say something to the affect of "Teens most likly don't know who they will be married too, but God does. He has prepared that person for them and intends for them to one day marry." and what I got out of it was that I ought to save those things for the one God has for me. I just believe faithfullness starts before marrage. Just like you should save your purity for marriage, in my own life I take it a step further I guess you could say. That's not to say everyone has to do that. What other Christians do about this is between them and God.
I was just giving my take on it.
~Miss Abby
Proverbs 31:30

 

Amen Abby,

I think you have said it pretty well, but I will add one more thing. I think it is very important as well to guard your heart.

In the world we live in, there are so many times when young ones are away from home and are in the presence of those of the opposite sex. These situations may be very harmless, but the more two people are together (regardless of any intentions) they are bound to form an attachment through no fault of their own. Young people should be very cautious when in mixed company.

When two people come to be married, they also should not have given away part of their heart, just as you would want a pure physical relationship with your spouse, you should want a pure emotional relationship.

Someone once said, the Bible teaches alcohol in moderation, but because of the sin nature we abstain. Anyone who is allowed to be away from home and in mixed company, is being allowed to take in that alcohol in moderation, children should abstain from any opportunity to loose their purity whether it be the heart or physical.

 

One thing I don't quite agree with in the modern courtship movement is the emphasis on guarding your heart. There seems to be a very particular meaning that one's spouse should be the first person for whom one has any kind of romantic feelings whatsoever.
I did not date in high school nor spend time alone in the company of boys. Didn't stop me though from having crushes on boys from afar or on movie stars. And those crushes were an innocent and normal part of growing up. Yet many in the courtship movement would say that I had lost emotional purity.

Karen

 

If you guard your heart no one will ever see it.

 

This matter of courtship vs. dating is kind of hard to exactly define.
For example, what if the lady in question is no longer living with, or close to her parents? What if she doesn't have a father or brothers, grandfather, etc?

 

To clarify guarding your heart, God has a mate for each of us. He gave Adam, Eve. Isaac, Rebecca.

It is when we step outside God's plan that we get attached to someone else. Jacob-Rachel+Leah, David-Bathsheba+Milcah, Elkannah-Hannah+Penninah. I believe that these are lessons,to wait on the Lord. Through circumstances beyond their control these men were given wives that weren't the ones God chose for them.

If you look at these examples, it was always the second one that got the chosen children. And the women were always fighting and jealous of the each other.

When circumstances force us to form any kind of relationship with the opposite sex, things happen beyond anyones control that carry into the relationship in which God ordains.

 

Um - to argue that there is only one women out there for us - takes not into account David

who murdered and adulterized and got Solomon

There is no one perfect spouse waiting

There are people that are better for you, and you for them - which will support each other in spiritual and physical lives

 

kissing off limits
- hugging im not a touchy feely guy
- but hand holding

- touching IS necessary

- I bet yer grandpa touched yer grandma - and I bet any single one of you that yer pas touched yer mas' not kissing, not hugging just touching - and not sexually.

 

The point with David is that Milcah was given to him by Saul, that doesn't mean it was God's choice for David. Solomon was conceived in adultery but he is the son of David that God used.

 

Ummmmmmmmm..... the scripture says:

ICorinthians 7:1-2 "Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me:It is good for a man not to touch a woman.Nevertheless,to avoid fornication,let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."
I'll just let the Scripture set the standard.

 

Please note that multiple wives was going on in THAT day.....not today...with an exception to some Mormons. I don't know about the other young ladies here, but I sure wouldn't want to share my husband with as many women as David married! {Besides, I've heard enough guys joke about how one woman is too much! }
I pray every day for the one God has for me. I'm trusting in Him to provide ONE...because that's all I'll ever want! I don't want to divorce and remarry {I'm sorry but I don't think it's right} and I surely hope I'm never widowed. {but only God knows for sure.}
Why would I not have faith God can prepare one specific person for me? That to me dosn't make sense to think otherwise. "Is anything to hard for the Lord?"
~Miss Abby
Proverbs 31:30

 

Incorrect use of the Bible 10 yard penalty

Commentary Critical and Explanatory
on the Whole Bible


CHAPTER 7

1 Corinthians 7:1-40. REPLY TO THEIR INQUIRIES AS TO MARRIAGE; THE GENERAL PRINCIPLE IN OTHER THINGS IS, ABIDE IN YOUR STATION, FOR THE TIME IS SHORT.

1. The Corinthians in their letter had probably asked questions which tended to disparage marriage, and had implied that it was better to break it off when contracted with an unbeliever.
good--that is, "expedient," because of "the present distress"; that is, the unsettled state of the world, and the likelihood of persecutions tearing rudely asunder those bound by marriage ties. Hebrews 13:4, in opposition to ascetic and Romish notions of superior sanctity in celibacy, declares, "Marriage is HONORABLE IN ALL." Another reason why in some cases celibacy may be a matter of Christian expediency is stated in 1 Corinthians 7:34,35, "that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction." But these are exceptional cases, and in exceptional times, such as those of Paul.


The purpose of the verse - is to deal with sex - sexual things - all of these focussing on the institution of marriage

According to your interpretation - we men are

a) such horndogs that we cant hold hands without consequences

b) automatically engaging in sex - oh wait thats a


Get over it - Ive hugged several girls that Ive totally despised - and hrm they aint having my babies - Ive kissed complete strange women and I have no attachment to them - Oh nuts today i shook hands with a woman - so obviously I have to find out who she is and marry her

The boundaries or limits are a personal one, but then again - one has to be careful that one takes into account a potential partners feelings in the matter.

After all in marriage/dating/friendships as in all relationships not mentioned above - one has to compromise - since no relationship is perfect

There is no ONE for you

There are those that are good for you, and God is more then willing to help you pick a better

 

Let us agree to dissagree shall we?

 

Thats a very good point. Actually it is statistically impossible for there to be one man for every woman and vice/versa owing to the fact that populational statistics reveal that there is a disparity in male/females favoring the females when viewed globally. There are also various disparaities within different cultures as would be expected. Of course the die hard will just claim that those figures represent the percentage of those called to a "single ministry".
To put it in plain terms,marrage is about two tings principally - sex and haviing/nurturing children. The church hs never been totally comfaortable with the concept of sex. The reason behind this is that of all the human behaviors that we ascribe to ourselves as putting us above the level of common animals, sex is te basest. When engaged in sexual intercourse, we are - in fact acting no differently than our mamallian counterparts. Sex, in respect debases the human experience to that of the common animal and has become a taboo to the enlightened Christian who views themselves as created "above the animals". The fact that our culture is in a "moral meltdown" and various institutions such as courtship and "matchmakers" are suffering the fallout has not helped.
The fact of the matter is that when we are pursuing marriage we are evaluating people as potential sexual partners and caregivers to potential progeny. Churches have always tried to flank the issue by illuminating the fringe benefits of marriage - companionship, bonding, etc.. but all excluding sexual intercourse can be achieved through common, casual relationships with either sex.
There are some people on this thread who are obviously inexperienced in matters of relationships. There is no shame in this - we've all been there. When you do become more experienced your views will change and you'll finally see that the issues you blanketed with all encompassing assumtions are in fact very complicated. In many cases you'll see that your previous analyses no longer hold water.