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Sheep And Goats!

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Dec 31, 2015.

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  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

    25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

    25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

    25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

    25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

    25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

    25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

    25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

    25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

    25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

    25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

    25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    The more I look at this passage of scripture which is familiar to us all it seem that for those sheep he is speaking of are granted eternal life for something they have done for the Lord?... An action they carried out unknowing they did it to the Lord... Notice also that the ones mentioned called brethren are also called sheep... The sheep carried out the action the goats did not... Also notice at no time does the Lord take a sheep and put it with the goats or vise versa... A sheep is a sheep and a goat is a goat and it is the Lord that makes that distinction not us... He is the one that separates the one from the other not us!... That is the way I see it... What are your thoughts on the matter?... Brother Glen
     
    #1 tyndale1946, Dec 31, 2015
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    When is it that "we" try to make such a distinction as you see it?
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Dec 31, 2015
  3. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Great stuff over at monergism.com regarding goats becoming sheep:

    Monergism Classic Essays and Articles - Thomas Adams, "A Diagnosis"

    "Yea, that the wandering sheep, yea, that those who are yet goats may become sheep, and be brought into one fold, under one shepherd. Whiles they continue weeds there is small hope. Yet Paul was once a tare, who after proved good wheat, and is now in the garner of heaven."
     
    #3 Jerome, Dec 31, 2015
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    As this verse is often used to show the depravity of all men, then who is the "we"?

    Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
     
    #4 DHK, Jan 11, 2016
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think that the use of “sheep and goats” prior to this separation by God is inappropriate. The term goats and tares are also descriptive of God’s work at Judgment, not terms upon which we should build doctrine. God will separate as a shepherd separates sheep and goats (or threshing wheat). The point is that they are together until separated by God (not us) so we probably should not built a doctrine against what we think may be "goats". This serves a warning to the Church (some will say Lord, Lord) and not a lesson about the lost. So my two cents are that this passage has been very much abused.
     
    #5 JonC, Jan 11, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I agree. Then there is this passage:

    Leviticus 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
    8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
    9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
    10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

    What do the two goats represent? Surely not the same thing as in Mat.25:31-46!
     
    #6 DHK, Jan 11, 2016
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