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Featured THE MEANING OF MONOGENES IN JOHN

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by a SATS prof, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure what you mean here. I think the John usages normally refer to the incarnation. 1 John 4:9 is somewhat different, and might be taken to refer to His eternal Sonship. I've never studied that issue out personally, so I would probably be at sea if we discussed it here. I have only taught one class on theology in my career, though I've taken my share of sys. theo. courses. O O
     
    #21 John of Japan, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  2. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Was Mary in any manner necessary to, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."? Only, unique, what of the Father? To Jesus being the only, unique, Son of God?

    No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    What does God speak? God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; Heb 1:1,2

    Where was, "the Word," that was made flesh, the only of the Father, in the beginning? Does Hebrews 7:9,10 give us a clue? And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him. Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

    I have asked before, "Did Jesus, the Son of God, the firstborn of the virgin Mary, of the tribe of Juda, in Abraham, pay tithes to Melcheisdec?

    Why would this understanding, which is according to the word of God, take away from Jesus being, Emmanuel?
     
  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    To me the greatest statement of the word of God, concerning belief.

    Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. Matt 1:24,25

    And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen 3:15

    Why was the woman taken from the man? How was she suppose to be, his helper?

    He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8
     
  4. a SATS prof

    a SATS prof Member

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  5. a SATS prof

    a SATS prof Member

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    3. He is Son because He eternally MUST submit to the Father's will (Grudem), 4. He is Son because He ternally receives His nature or deity or Personhood from the Father(Dahms, Berkof, Wiley, Shedd)

    #4 bases its belief partly on monogenes. THAT'S what I meant.
     
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The bird in question is the mythical phoenix. I think many of your points are answered here http://www.bible-researcher.com/only-begotten.html which I linked in my article.
     
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Thanks much for the quick education. The text for the Christology class I took was Erickson. In retrospect and looking at the four positions you give, that is the one I take (#2; after all, Erickson is a good Baptist ;)).

    However, I can see how the word monogenes might be used to bolster #1. In my thinking, though, monogenes is used by John simply to portray the incarnation, not to refer to Christ's eternal Sonship. Thus, 1 John 4:9 is not saying that Jesus was monogenes before the incarnation, but simply pointing out His preexistence.
     
  8. a SATS prof

    a SATS prof Member

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    ===
    Thanks looks like good stuff! You wrote these articles, right? "my article."
     
  9. a SATS prof

    a SATS prof Member

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    ---

    John I agree with #2 also.

    When it comes to Christology, the two Baptists Grudem & Erickson much disagree. I concur with Erickson, but disagree with Grudem, that God the Son is not eternally role subordinate. But then I concur with Grudem, but disagree with Erickson,that God the Son incarnate had to give up the use of some attributes of God as omnipresence and omniscience.
     
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Then we are in sync.
     
  11. a SATS prof

    a SATS prof Member

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    #31 a SATS prof, Jan 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2016
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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  13. a SATS prof

    a SATS prof Member

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