Featured Does Scripture Need "Fixing?"

No, of course not Van. But without passing judgment on the Mark 15:42 English translation, what might need fixing is a flawed translation of a scripture.


HankD

 

From Vincent Word Studies
"The Hebrews reckoned two evenings, an earlier and a later. The former began midway between noon and sunset, or at three o'clock in the afternoon. The latter began at sunset, six o'clock. The reference here is to the earlier evening, though the time may have been well on toward the beginning of the latter. The preparations had to be hurried because the Sabbath would begin at sunset."

Hence the NIV and NLT rightly have "as evening approached"
Weymouth : "towards sunset"

The very same applies to the parallel passage in Matthew 27:57.

 

'Evening' is a pretty elastic term.

Evening approaches as the sun goes down.
Evening is over when the sun goes down.

The key thing to communicate in the verse is that it was not yet night.

Sabbath regulations wouldn't allow burial after sunset (Deut 21:23).

Both translations convey that well.

Rob

 

Critical text scholarship is built largely on the theories of apostate liberal scholars that went before them.

the modern textual critic and those who hold the critical text are never told about the theological apostacy and often denial of inspiration held by those like Tragelles,Griesbach, Nestle, Aland, Metzger, Tischendorf, Wescott, Hort, etc..

the critical textual theories were not developed by sound bible believers, and it's sad that most evangelicals don't have a clue as to the theological climates of the early 1800s when the so called science of textual criticism started developing.

 

Both versions follow the same Greek text. The differences lie in the translation of the text.

Additionally. the TR and the Critical text do not differ here either.

Rob

 

There seems to be a whole stream of threads missing at this point.

This concerns "The Parsons" missing posts on 1 Corinthians 1:18 where he noted that some versions use "being saved" verses "saved".


At the risk of boring you to death, I've done a grammatical morphology search for all New Testament passages with the form "verb, present passive participle, plural, dative, masculine" and compared them in the NIV, AV/KJV and NKJV.

Recognize that although the words differ, their grammatical structure is quite constant in each version. The AV consistently translates the present tense participle in a past tense manner.

Acts 28:10
They honored us in many ways; and when we were ready to sail, they furnished us with the supplies we needed. NIV

who also honoured us with many honours; and when we departed, they laded us with such things as were necessary. AV

They also honored us in many ways; and when we departed, they provided such things as were necessary. NKJV


1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. NIV

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. AV

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. NKJV


2 Corinthians 2:15
For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. NIV

For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: AV

For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. NKJV


2 Thessalonians 1:7
and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. NIV

and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, AV

and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, NKJV


1 Timothy 5:10
and is well known for her good deeds, such as bringing up children, showing hospitality, washing the feet of the Lord’s people, helping those in trouble and devoting herself to all kinds of good deeds.

well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

well reported for good works: if she has brought up children, if she has lodged strangers, if she has washed the saints’ feet, if she has relieved the afflicted, if she has diligently followed every good work. NKJV


Hebrews 2:18
Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted. NIV

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. AV

For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted. NKJV


Hebrews 5:2
He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness. NIV

who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. AV

He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness. NKJV


1 Peter2:14
or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. NIV

or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. AV

or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. NKJV

Rob

 

Why should that all of a sudden concern you? You have made scores of self-penned "translations" that exist in absolutely no translations and yet have proclaimed with pride that every translation is wrong and yours is how it "should be translated" thus and such.

What is your response to what Vincent said in post 3?

As TC has said :"In your fevered dreams." Ha,Ha.

 

If you desire Greeklish instead of English then consult an interlinear --not a translation. Translations are not slaves to the syntax of the original. Rearrangement of the sentence structure is common.

Please note what I said above. There is no agenda to alter the message. Your premise is false.

As Rob mentioned in post 4, the word evening is rather elastic. The verse under discussion centers on the fact that it was before nighfall --before 6PM. It was before sunset. And many times sunset occurs shortly after 5. So it was late afternon, or dusk according to our way of thinking.

Not at all.

Mark 15:42
CEB : late in the afternoon
NIV and NLT : as evening approached
Weymouth : towards sunset

Matthew 27:57
NIV,NLT : As evening approached
Mounce : toward sunset
Weymouth : towards sunset

All of the above are perfectly acceptable to reasonable people. But you wish to apply some nefarious intention to the NIV rendering of these verses. Your focus is microscopic. You specialize in minutia. Tis a shame.

 

I think you adequately explained the reason the NIV adopted the phrasiology that they did when you associated the phrase "evening had already come" as meaning after nightfall.

There was reason for haste in taking Jesus down from the cross and preparing his body.
Sabbath regulations proscribed interment before sunset (Deut 21:23).

Rob

 

Van spammer. Could you please refrain from going off-topic? You had started this thread by focusing on Mark 15:42. It's perfectly fine to also deal with parallel passages as well. But for you to constantly use this forum to foist your bold-faced, fictionalized "list" at every drop of the hat, is rather annoying and infantile. Get a new habit, one that is constructive and edifying.

 

Aorist in most cases is translated as simple past tense, however it is a flexible element of Koine Greek.

Here are some variant exceptions:

1) The constative aorist.
2) The ingressive aorist.
3) The cumulative aorist.
4) The gnomic aorist.
5) The epistolary aorist (this sometimes even needs a present or future tense consideration).
6) The dramatic aorist.

Extract:
A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, Dana and Mantey, 1955, pages 193 - 200.

Please do a Google on the one(s) of interest. It's far too technical and complex an issue in terms of nuance and idiom for this manner of board.

Or buy a Koine Greek grammar. Also I am rusty on these details. I took my 3 semesters of Greek 44 years ago.



HankD

 

Here is a helpful website for the koine aorist tense.

http://ezraproject.com/id34.html

HankD

 

Agreed Van. The other issue is the meaning of "evening" (Grk. opsios, opsinos).

Strongs 3798 opsios Either from 3:00 to 6:00 PM - or from 6:00 PM on.
Friberg Greek Lexicon 03868 opsios Either before or just after sundown.
UBS Lexicon 04476 opsios Late.
Louw-Nida Lexicon opsios pertaining to a point near the end of the day (normally after sundown but before night).

Also a possibility of impact involvement:

my emboldening.

http://www.jewfaq.org/shabbat.htm

The impact: If the Sabbath ends when three stars are visible, does every other day?
However, I don't know if this Talmudic tradition was in force in Jesus day and is it God's definition found somewhere in the scripture seeing it is a Talmudic tradition?

HankD