Featured Faith? Where does it come from?

I was speaking of faith. However when the Lord gives the Holy Spirit to someone who is unsaved then obviously he, at that time, obtains salvation. Is there anyone that has an argument with that?

God doesn't "make" anyone spiritually alive. If they believe they will be saved.
If they don't believe they will be damned. Those are the words of Jesus.
To be spiritually dead is simply to be separated from God. A person separated from God needs to be reconciled to God. The Lord doesn't force reconciliation. He has appointed you, as his ambassador to be a minister of reconciliation. Are you up for the task. It is part of the obligatory nature of the Great Commission.

 

You are wrong yet again.

even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— Ephesians 2:5

You keep booting God out of the equation in order to insert man. You do the same with the Sovereign rule of Christ and insert Satan as ruler of the earth. God is on the top of the save and rule spectrum, not at the bottom.

 

Notice I have the word "make" in quotation marks. I did that so folks like you wouldn't come to conclusions like this. You are taking my statement out of its context and applying a meaning I never intended. The quotation marks were there to make sure the reader knew that "make" was as "force" one to be saved. A reading of the full quote gives that meaning to the word unless you isolate it like you just have.
IOW, God does not force or "make" one to "alive..." or saved," he gives them the choice whether to believe or not to believe.

The words of Christ are plain in Mark 16:16:
He that believeth...shall be saved;
He that believeth not shall be damned.

Christ didn't lie. The ones that are misinterpreting the Word are the ones that change the meaning of words. Words like "dead" or "death," "world," etc.

Those who do not believe that Satan is the god of this world simply deny scripture.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the sovereignty of God. One can believe both.
Have you read Job chapters one and two.

Have you read the Bible? Biblical passages such as:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Those are God's words, not mine. If you have an argument with God take it up with Him, not me.

 

DHK,

.
This is not correct.

These words are clear...BUT we notice God gave us a whole bible...not just a postcard.

This is a Christian message board. No one thinks this is even possible,why do you waste
time with this foolishness.

wrong again

We are under the rule of King Jesus....He rules over all. You confess to be under satans rule....sorry for you.

You have no understanding here.

Another sad posting. Of course he has read the bible. he has a better grasp on it than you do...thanks for asking!Cautious

The rest of us notice that it speaking of those who believe not.

Nice try....but the error is yours not God's.

 

You're still wrong as usual.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1 Peter 1:3

And we have this:

And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. Ezekiel 36:27

And this again:

even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— Ephesians 2:5

You simply don't like all that God Sovereignty stuff apparently.

Ya think?

It is folks like you in your erroneous camp that don't like to use biblical meanings and definitions. You love to mitigate the truth of what repentance is and make it only a change of mind about God. But then you deny such a change necessitates repentance from sin as Scripture shows so plainly. It is hardly a change of mind about God that does not cause one to repent of sin as well.

Then when speaking of the biblical definition of death, as in spiritual death, you run from the meaning which is 'corpse, dead' and then exalt the Spiritually dead on some man exalting pedastal of your own error and reduce it to separation. That is the biblical definition and since you don't like that you come up with your own meaning learned from those who share your error. You are one very confused and inconsistent wrester of Scripture.

Christ reigns and has all authority in heaven and earth in my world, not Satan. You are always so prepared to diminish the work of God and mitigate it then exalt man and Satan immediately.

It is you my friend that has the problem.

 

When the Lord "gives the Holy Spirit to someone" you say. You have no problem with that, yet you deny that God gives saving faith and repentance to His chosen ones. God gives grace.

Aside from Eph.2:5 which says the Lord does in fact do this --Col. 2:13 says :God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sin
See 2 Cor. 4:6 : For God...made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God's glory displayed in the face of Christ.
See 1 Peter 2:9 : ...declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Of course God makes us spiritually alive. You have no power to convert yourself despite your protestations that your keen perception and natural abilities were able to do the trick. You have even gone to the point by stating that God "may be involved in our salvation." You claimed that you "just decided to have it; no one gave it to me."

But Scripture is against you all the way DHK. There is no other way but the Bible way. Hear what I say?

 

Ephesians 2:8 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Salvation is certainly the gift of God, as is grace and faith. They are symbiotic.

 

The words are clear. God gave us a whole Bible. And the statements in the Bible do not contradict each other but rather harmonize with each other. However, they do contradict Calvin, and therein lies your problem.
Again the statement of Jesus quoted word for word in Mark 16:16,

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
--The essence of the Great Commission is given here. It is restated in every gospel and in the book of Acts. It is a command to preach the gospel. The gospel is the central theme of the Bible, as Christ is the central person and point of the gospel. All of history centers around Christ.
Are you relegating Christ to just a postcard??

Then why are you answering my post to someone else if you are upset about it.
The fact is that Mark 16:16 either should be believed, and not question. Or do you also question the veracity and truthfulness of Jesus when He said:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Did he mean that, or is there another way to heaven, and another way to be damned?
Isn't Jesus clear enough?

You are entitled to your opinion, but it means nothing if it is not supported with any facts.

I didn't confess anything. I quoted scripture. The problem here is one of belief or denial. It appears there are some (as yourself) that would rather deny the scripture than believe it, simply because it is in conflict with their preconceived theology.
Here is what the scripture says:

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
--Again, they are not my words, but God's. If you have a problem with God's words, then take it up with God.

You are the one confused. If you would read Job chapters one and two you would be able to understand how God is able to give control of a person's life or even control of the world to Satan, and still be sovereign. That has always been true. Your understanding of sovereignty is incomplete.

Try again Icon.
First you are not the spokesman for "the rest of us" and the "rest of us" don't see as you do (blindly)

Here is what you don't see or refuse to see:

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

"The god of this world" refers to Satan, and he is the one who has blinded the minds of them which believe not. The god or ruler of this world is not Christ but Satan.
This is what God the Holy Spirit has written. For some reason you argue against Him.

 

Just to sum it all up for you:
God did not FORCE salvation on me.
I FREELY CHOSE to accept His free gift of salvation BY FAITH.

 

That God created man with a free will is illustrated throughout the Scriptures in which we find multitudes of people, including most of the Jewish people, choosing to disobey God and refusing His gracious gift of salvation. We find in the Bible only two instances in which the Scriptures say that God intervened and altered the hearts of individuals, thereby influencing their will,

Prov. 21: 1. The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord;
he turns it wherever he will.

Ex. 9: 12. But the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he would not listen to them, just as the Lord had spoken to Moses. (NRSV)

In the first instance, no details at all are provided; in the second instance, Pharaoh's heart was hardened. Nowhere in the Scriptures do we find it said that God ever softened the hearts of anyone so that they would necessarily believe the Gospel. On the contrary, the Scriptures say,

Deuteronomy 30:19. I call heaven and earth to witness against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Choose life so that you and your descendants may live,
20. loving the Lord your God, obeying him, and holding fast to him; for that means life to you and length of days, so that you may live in the land that the Lord swore to give to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.

Joshua 24:14. “Now therefore revere the Lord, and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness; put away the gods that your ancestors served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord.” (NRSV)

There is not the slightest hint in these passages of Scripture that suggest that the persons being addressed, a multitude of persons, had anything other than a free will to choose between revering God and serving Him in sincerity and in faithfulness, or setting Him aside and serving other gods. Are we to formulate our soteriology on the basis of what God did in the hearts of two individuals in Old Testament times; or are we to formulate our soteriology on the basis of the Scriptures as a whole in which we find the prophets, Jesus, and the New Testament writers pleading with their audience to repent and believe, a pleading that makes no sense whatsoever unless the audience had the freedom to respond positively to it if they so chose. And indeed, some did choose to respond to it positively, and others chose not to. Those who believed and consequently responded to the pleadings in a positive manner acted upon the faith instilled in them through the pleadings. Those who believed and consequently responded to the message of the gospel in a positive manner acted upon the faith instilled in them through the message of the gospel.

The Scriptures are not inconsistent and neither is my interpretation of them; the Scriptures present to us what is the norm, and I am interpreting the Scriptures to teach what is the norm—man has a free will. Yes, the Scriptures mention two exceptions, and I acknowledge them as exceptions—exceptions that must be evaluated and understood on the basis of the context in which they appear.

 

You call that being free? That's called the fall, bondage of the will, enslavement to sin, a wicked heart, 'none good' and etc.

'We'? No my friend, YOU find in the Bible only two instances...

 

Wow!!!!!!!!!!! The above would get a person under church discipline in our church if not excommunicated due to unwillingness to recant their error!

 

If you are the only printer of money and you make it a sin punishable by damnation to hell not to have twenty dollars, and you only give twenty dollars to your grandson and therefore damn every other person in the world for the sin of not having 20 dollars, then your analogy is finally accurate, and in fact you withheld what you commanded to be produced, and so the hypothesis as stated is not a flawed description of your opinion on the theological matter of the OP, at least as you have expounded it by means of your cute little analogy.

 

Where does scripture say they are "symbiotic"?

 

I guess this means you can pat yourself on the back because you made the free choice to come to Christ. Certainly you would deny this, but you tenor makes it appear that you are boasting not only in the cross of Christ but also your ability to choose him. And this is what I find abhorrent about your view. You are taking the credit for your salvation... even in a small way. You can't give all the glory to God b/c you have held back some for yourself and the free choice you made.

 

I think that is a great theological understanding as well as a helpful way to understand the various uses of genders Eph. 2:8. I think it likely that the "that not of yourself" is not just a reference to faith (but certainly includes it) but the entire enterprise of "salvation by grace through faith." Not one bit of it is "that not of yourself"... salvation or grace or faith. They all work in harmony and lockstep with one another. If one falls, they all fall.

 

DHK,

Glad we agree on that.

Yes.....how nice.

No one mentioned Calvin but you! This is your obsession. You have an agenda and you cannot help yourself.It is if you are bound by something that will not let you go.

Yes....everyone knows this. You repeating it over and over does not help your case. It adds nothing to this discussion at all.
You announce this as if you have uncovered a new idea that no one else has seen before.

Only in your distorted mind does this take place. No one reading the thread will see it that way, but you with your agenda which fails to deal ethically with Cal posters.
My statement was about you isolating one verse as if that was all we have on this topic. There is an obvious disconnect between you saying we have a whole bible, then trying to make this one verse say everything to the exclusion of any other portion of scripture.....that was the postcard reference until you twisted it as you do the scriptures.

Listen,,,,I know when I read your posts I am going to see error...we all know that. Your error and different views are rarely the question that comes to the top of the discussion, although it does get commented on and corrected.
The reason I respond is that you have been asked more than 30 x to stop posting in this unethical manner as you do here.

You do it again in this post,and that is why you should be removed as a moderator....you should be allowed to post for sure, but your moderator position should be removed because of your unethical posting.
It could be to me, or anyone else on the board, but you do the same garbage over and over, as you do in this very post.
I will show it again here;

Everyone believes this....

You have been told over and over that no one here questions Jesus word and veracity, yet you repeat this garbage over and over in an imbecilic manner....you do so trying to take the focus off your lack of a real answer as you seek to shift the discussion to the person posting , rather than answer the issue at hand.
NNE is fooled by this tactic....so stop it. Stop it now! Every but you you in your rebellion understands Mk 16, but they understand there are many other portions of the bible that speaks to this whole question.
Address the op and not the person.

Who said anything like what you suggest? Nobody suggested any such thing...stop with these baseless accusations.
Who said Jesus was not clear? NOBODY.
Everyone else knows this posting is a waste.

The same is true for you. No one asked you for your opinion or speculation.

Or unbelief on your part.

It appears that this is yet another ungodly attack offered by you because of your anti-cal agenda. It is garbage, stop doing it! Stop it.Enough of this bogus garbage.

You have posted this more than ten times now. YOU FAIL TO NOTICE IT IS SPEAKING OF UNBELIEVERS.
God rules and reigns in the hearts of believers.Jesus rules and reigns over the universe even if you are in unbelief and denial of that fact.

We do not have a problem as we understand these scriptures.....you do not.

Yes...it must seem that way to you as you sit immersed in your error, it is all so confusing to youCautious
You wonder....why do they not like what I post...i only insulted all of them a little bit...why can they not understand my brilliant posts?Cautious Then you smuggly go on to do it all over again with the next person.

Because I and others understand JOB we know that God is in absolute control of whatsoever comes to pass, satan is like a dog on chained up and under God's control.

.
You are one of the last people on the planet that I would ask about God's sovereignty

I just did....I should start charging you a fee for correction of error and off topic posting.

But I am...they all agree more or less...just ask them...RoflmaoThumbsup