Featured Faith? Where does it come from?

The life given to Christians is eternal, but our possession of that life is conditional upon our continued faith in, and obedience to, Christ (as is expressly taught in John 5:24 and John 15:1-6). We possess that life only in the sense that we are “in Christ” who is the way, the truth, and the life. Those Christians who choose to depart from the way, the truth, and the life are free to do so. Jesus came into this world to save us from sins (Matt. 1:21), as a free gift. This free gift did not require that we give up our free will, and Jesus was not such a thief as to steal our free will from us!

If a Christian has, as an act of his free will, “trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace,” and has returned to his sins, what is he/she saved from?

I trust that you are aware that all of the numerous doctrines that fall under the umbrella of ‘eternal security’ were first devised by men as a consequence of Calvin’s erroneous understanding of the sovereignty of God. I also trust that you are aware that the many 19th century doctrines that fall under the umbrella of ‘eternal security’ were first devised by men as a consequence of the plethora of Biblical arguments that had been put forth to debunk the earlier ‘eternal security’ doctrines such as ‘the perseverance of the saints’ and ‘the preservation of the saints.’ I suppose, however, that it is peculiar that a 21st century Baptist pastor and teacher would hold to the doctrine of conditional security as it was unanimously taught by Christians for the first 1500 years of the Church!

What is more confusing— the doctrine of conditional security as it was unanimously taught by Christians for the first 1500 years of the Church, and is still the view of the very large majority of Christians today, or the numerous doctrines that fall under the umbrella of ‘eternal security’ and are all being proclaimed today in Baptist pulpits? Faith comes from hearing the gospel, but faith that is not exercised all too often wanes—sometimes till there is nothing left of it.

 

You are NOT right! I do NOT believe, nor have I ever believed, that baptism is a requirement for salvation.

 

1. I believe faith is innate. We are born to believe, born to love, born to enjoy the blessings of God; part of being made in the image of God. It is what makes us different from animals.
--Jesus said that except you be as little children you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. I believe he was referring to the faith of little children, that simplistic faith that they have in their parents to protect and provide for them. That is the type of faith we are to have in our Heavenly Father. It is the object of our faith that is important, not the source.
--Jesus said concerning a Roman centurion: that he had greater faith than all of Israel. But he was a Gentile.
--Jesus said to a Gentile Canaanite woman:
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
--Where did her faith come from?

2. I don't answer for other people. I can't answer for Hitler, Mussolini, or for Obama. I will give an account of myself before God, as will all men.

3. Who will believe? God knows those who will believe. I don't. Those who will believe will be saved.
Those who will be saved are God's elect, God's chosen, God's beloved, etc. He knew who they were before the foundation of the earth.

 

You made a statement, a Calvinistic statement, one that I believe cannot be supported by Scripture.
You automatically think that everything you say is supported by Scripture. It isn't.
I never said anything uncivil. Back up your position with Scripture.

 

I think we are born of the flesh, with the lust thereof and we, when the rubber meets the road, would rather satisfy the lust of the flesh than to know God. to love God or to be loved by God, therefore we must be born again. We are in unbelief until God calls and gives the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth and puts us in belief, in the faith.

 

Salvation is a gift. It is the gift of God received by faith. In Romans 6:23 the gift is called eternal life. Eternal means just what it says: "eternal," without end, forever and ever. That is what Christ promised. If it could be lost in any way whatsoever then Christ would be lying and eternal would become temporary. But Christ did not promise "temporary life," he promised "eternal life," and he didn't add conditions. His promise of eternal life is unconditional.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
1. "I give unto them eternal life."
2. They shall never perish.
3. No man shall pluck them out of my hand.
4. No man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
5. The claim of deity--I and my Father are one--one in essence. That is how firm this promise of eternal life is to the sheep that he has given eternal life. It is at the very least a four-fold promise that cannot be denied. If words have meanings eternal security is taught here and cannot be denied. One would have to deliberately deny the Word of God.
Eternal means eternal in spite of what one's theology says.

If it were a possible for a person to do this then he wouldn't be a Christian. This is impossible for a Christian to do. You don't understand the Book of Hebrews. The author was comparing two different covenants.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
--This is what happened in the OT. The person that despised Moses law could easily suffer the death penalty if confirmed by two or three witnesses.

Under grace:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
--This is a hypothetical. Notice the words "Suppose ye." It is hypothetical because it is impossible for a true Christian to do. Among these Hebrew believers that the author was writing to were some that were thinking about going back to Judaism, to worship at the Temple. Obviously if a person should return to a false religion means they were never saved in the first place. All throughout the book Paul contrasts the OT worship of the Jews to the NT worship of Christianity. It is impossible to go back. Those who do go back are not saved. It would be like a "converted Muslim" going back to Islam. How could he have been saved in the first place?

Jesus taught eternal security in John 10:27-30. I just demonstrated that to you.
Calvin taught "Preservation of the Saints," which is a bit different.
I am not a Calvinist, and don't believe any of the points of Calvin, so you can't pull that one on me.
Attack Calvin all you want. That doesn't bother me. The Bible teaches eternal security, not Calvin.

You haven't provided any evidence for that. But it doesn't matter.
Our authority is the Word of God. Your position denies the Word of God clearly, as demonstrated in John 10:27-30. How do you explain that passage?

The Bible is our authority. It clearly teaches that the gift of God is eternal life.

 

The ability to believe, the ability to love, etc. is innate.
Even as a young child you exercised those abilities with your parents.
Now, when confronted with a decision to believe and love God, who must become the object of both your faith and your love, that is a different situation.

First we are commanded to love the Lord our God with all of our heart, mind and soul.
Second we are born again by the Word of God. (1Pet.1:23).
Third, in salvation, the source of faith is the hearing of the Word of God (Rom.10:17)
--Thus salvation cannot take place without the Holy Spirit working through the Word of God.

 

Proponents of the doctrine of eternal security like to quote John 10:27-29 out of context and totally miss the point that Jesus was making—the very point that got Him crucified!

27. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.” (NASB, 1995)

Here it is in context,

22. At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem;
23. it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon.
24. The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
25. Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
26. “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30. “I and the Father are one.” (NASB, 1995)

In this passage, Jesus is asserting his deity. The importance of the words in verse 28 all but escapes the attention of many. Compare these two passages:

Isa. 43:13. “Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?” (NASB, 1995)

Wisdom 3:1. But the souls of the just are in the hand of God,
and no torment shall touch them. (NAB, 1986)

Jesus is telling the Jews that His hand is the hand of God, and that, therefore, He is God! But notice that there is nothing at all in any of these three verses that says that anyone is grasped in the hand of God so that he cannot escape if he wants to. The point is that it is the hand of God, and being the hand of God there is safety in it Those who are in the hand of God are in Christ and in Christ is the eternal life—and no where else! Anyone who chooses either actively or passively to depart from the Christian faith departs from Christ and necessarily departs from the life that is in Christ. Just as we possess the safety of God only while we abide in Christ, we possess the life of Christ only while we abide in Him. Eternal life is Christ’s life and we posses it only in Him. The Greek adjective translated ‘eternal’ modifies the Greek noun translated ‘life’ and thus describes not our possession of the life, but the life itself—the life of Christ that we share with Him when we are in Him.

 

Heb. 10:28. Anyone who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy “on the testimony of two or three witnesses.”
29. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?
30. For we know the one who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
31. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (NRSV)

Yes, the author (who was definitely NOT Paul) is comparing two covenants—the covenant of the Law vs. the covenant of grace. An unregenerate Jew who sins under the covenant of the Law shall be judged and punished according the Law. A Christian who has “spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace” shall deserve a much worse punishment. There is NOTHING hypothetical about any of this. The Greek verb δοκέω translated as ‘suppose’ or ‘think’ is not, in our passage here, in the subjunctive mood—it is in the indicative mood, the mood of affirmation! Furthermore—how many non-Christians have you met who were sanctified by the blood of Christ while yet unbelievers?

The history of the interpretation of the Epistle to the Hebrews is very well known—and it is known for an incontrovertible fact that prior to the 16th century, the “warning passages” were universally interpreted by Christians as warnings of a very real—and all too frequent—reality. The same is true of the writings attributed to John the Evangelist and to Peter. Indeed, the doctrine of eternal security is not found in any extra-biblical writing prior to the 16th century, but the doctrine of conditional security is found in many hundreds of extra-biblical writings from that period. Consequently, the reality is that the Bible very clearly teaches the doctrine of conditional security rather than the doctrine of eternal security—but something happened in the 16th century that cause the Bible to be interpreted in a radically new and novel manner unlike anyone had interpreted it before. The Ante-Nicene Church Fathers explicitly taught from the Scriptures the doctrine of conditional security; and these were the very same Church Fathers whom God chose to use to establish the New Testament Canon and to formalize the doctrine of the Trinity. They were not heretics or fools—they were Christian scholars who wrote before something awful happened in the 16th century causing a substantial minority of the Church to go horribly astray from the teaching of the Bible.

Moreover, if the Bible was so poorly written that no one was able, until the 16th century, to understand even its teaching on salvation, the Bible cannot possibly be the inspired Word of God—but rather it is junk literature written by men with ridiculously poor writing skills. But no, the Bible is the inspired Word of God—and it was so very well and clearly written that for the first 1,500 years of the Church the doctrine of the conditional security of the believer was universally understood—and it continues to be understood by the very large majority of Christians today, including many Baptists.

Faith comes from hearing the gospel, but faith that is not exercised all too often wanes—sometimes till there is nothing left of it.

 

His teachings are nearly all against Scriptures.

Note this from 1 Cor. 4:7: For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

DHK is opposing the above, and would even have opposed Paul here with his innate faith position just as he is opposing those here on this board who teach the same as this apostle.

Of this, that we have received everything from the LORD and have nothing from within ourselves in which to glory, Gill writes of one proud Arminian by name of Grevinchovius and quotes him as saying this:

"I make myself to differ; since I could resist God, and divine predetermination, but have not resisted, why may not I glory in it as of my own?''

DHK's boasting is no different, is just as condescending, void of gratitude and glorying in God alone, and is the same which was done by Grevinchovius.

 

With all due respect brother I do not believe that stating another's view as unbiblical makes said statement uncivil. It is when the person lies, distorts, name calls, uses deceit, when one supports these liars and attacks the liars opponents that it is uncivil and more importantly unChristian behavior imo.

 

Well, if you read Hebrews 11:2 it says:

"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command"

So we must have a tiny bit of faith to realize that God created the universe.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

What is God saying when He says, "People are without excuse"? If people are not given even a tiny sliver of faith based on observing creation, what do they need an excuse for?

 

I think because of the following ----- For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Rom 7:18, 8:8 & Heb 11:6 ------ If God has not called one to come and given one the Holy Spirit, one can not have faith, that is be a believer nor please God.

 

I would like to agree with you and I do agree with you. But let me ask. Let's use a man out of the realm of being exposed to say the God of Abraham. And that man looked around the sky at night and came to the conclusion that a God must have done all that. Let say he would call him the God of creation. Did that belief come to him innately, or was it put in him by that God of creation for, purpose?

Why did he believe that when those around did not believe?

Even Abram. Did God call him because he was a believer or did God call him to become the believer, of the faith, that in his seed all the peoples of the earth would be blessed?


Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all Rom 4:16
And if ye be Christ's,(<Christ's is the, of the faith, above that makes Abraham the father of all, is it not?) then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

Bible says that God revealed to us. So, it comes from God.

I have no idea.
John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

 

The fact that Jesus asserts his deity makes his promise of eternal life all that more certain.
Thus the words of verse 28 are words you have not addressed yet:
28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
You have yet to deal with the meaning of those words. God doesn't lie. He promises eternal life. This indeed is a promise of eternal security. It can't be taken any other way even if the context is as you say: the deity of Christ.

This changes nothing of the promise to his sheep that he gives to them eternal life; eternal security. It is simply a red herring. You are evading the meaning of the verse.

Are you a Catholic? This book is not even in the Bible; is not inspired. The Book of Wisdom is apocryphal. It contains errors. It is not of God. Again it is just another red herring.

Here is an example from the same chapter:
10: But the ungodly shall be punished according to their own imaginations, which have neglected the righteous, and forsaken the Lord.
--Will the wicked be judged according to their imagination? Is that the basis of judgment?
The basis of judgment is the rejection of God.

Here is another questionable teaching:
14: And blessed is the eunuch, which with his hands hath wrought no iniquity, nor imagined wicked things against God: for unto him shall be given the special gift of faith, and an inheritance in the temple of the Lord more acceptable to his mind.
--Where does the Bible teach that a eunuch will receive "a special gift of faith'?

Where does it say anything about departing from Christ? You are reading that into the passage. That is your philosophy.
He said his gift was eternal life. Was he lying? What does "eternal" mean?
What does "never perish" mean?
Your post evades these questions that you are not able to answer.