Sinless

tyndale1946 said:

Will we have the same body that Adam had when God first created him before the fall?

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The Word of God is silent about the specifics of this glorified body. All we know is that we will be like Christ (I John 3:2). I wouldn't argue the point with anyone who believed our glorified bodies would be like the original body that God formed for Adam. However, one certainly cannot be dogmatic about issues on which the Bible is silent.

Or will be a different body as Adams according to the plan of his Sovereign God was prone to fall.

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God did not create Adam with the intention of him falling. That was not "His plan." God created Adam with the "ability" to fall - a free will - and Adam choose to sin. God is so sovereign that He can create us with a free will and yet remain in control the entire time. But, that is another topic for another forum.

Pastor_Bob said:

The Word of God is silent about the specifics of this glorified body. All we know is that we will be like Christ (I John 3:2). I wouldn't argue the point with anyone who believed our glorified bodies would be like the original body that God formed for Adam. However, one certainly cannot be dogmatic about issues on which the Bible is silent.

God did not create Adam with the intention of him falling. That was not "His plan." God created Adam with the "ability" to fall - a free will - and Adam choose to sin. God is so sovereign that He can create us with a free will and yet remain in control the entire time. But, that is another topic for another forum.

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I agree but God in his Sovereignty knew Adam would fall and the remedy for that fall was already in place... Genesis 3:15... You are right Pastor Bob a topic for another forum... Brother Glen

Pastor_Bob said:

The soul is changed at the moment of salvation. The new man that is born in us is incapable of sin.
Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Paul makes it clear as well when he says:
Romans 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

So, we have already been changed into a new creature. All that is lacking is for us to take off the old robe of flesh and put on the new robe of our glorified body. This happens at death or at the Rapture.

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Paul said Believers sin,
Rom 7:19

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

But Sin is not accounted to us because of cHRIST

Pastor_Bob said:

The Word of God is silent about the specifics of this glorified body. All we know is that we will be like Christ (I John 3:2). I wouldn't argue the point with anyone who believed our glorified bodies would be like the original body that God formed for Adam. However, one certainly cannot be dogmatic about issues on which the Bible is silent.


God did not create Adam with the intention of him falling. That was not "His plan." God created Adam with the "ability" to fall - a free will - and Adam choose to sin. God is so sovereign that He can create us with a free will and yet remain in control the entire time. But, that is another topic for another forum.

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Scripture is very clear flesh and blood will not be in Heaven. Adam was flesh and blood , Adam is not the pinnacle of Humanity, We should not consider his state of innocence to be desirable, Their period of innocence is typical of our early childhood. Heavenly bodies are described in several places. Ours may not be much different

From what I understood here is that the new man who is a new creation in Christ does not sin in his spirit thats true as long as he is in an unbroken communion with God but if he gives in to the flesh he can pollute even his spirit, otherwise why would Paul exhort believers to be wholly sanctified spirit, soul and body if our spirit was already sinless or pure?

Everyone who holds that dualistic concept that spirit does not sin but its only in the flesh that we do sin, has to quote Romans 7 to support this teaching. Romans 7:14-25 in its context is applying to life under law and not under grace. Text out of context is a pretext and that's what many do with Romans 7 to support their dualistic view that is a relic of gnosticism and not apostolic teaching. If a Christian is dominated by the flesh he needs to be sanctified in the spirit as well as the body.

Paul makes it clear in Romans 8 that life dominated by the Spirit overcomes sin, if we are controlled by the Spirit we won't sin deliberately or knowingly, it is only when we give in to the flesh that we give in to temptation and sin and according to the bible we have the power to resist temptation and sin enters in when we give in to temptation.

We will have a mortal body for the rest of our lives because of the consequences of Adam sin but our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and should be cleased from sin. The normal Christian life as described in the NT does not support this view that we should have sin in our body for the rest of our life? Our flesh if we live in the Spirit is not evil but mortal, its only sinful when we give in and live in sin and not in holiness. God meant life to be governed by the spirit and not the flesh, it is when we turn this order upside down that we are in big trouble. When we give in to the pleasures of the flesh we sin and when we let the Spirit control our life we bear fruit.

One who overcomes sin, the world, the flesh and the devil is called an overcomer in the Bible and slave of righteousness not slave of sin. Otherwise would be pointless for Paul to exhort believers and pray that they would be spotless and blameless in this life and not just in the one to come and a blameless life was one of the requirements for a bishop or an elder in the early church.

Also if Paul did not live a blameless life he would never said to believers to follow his example or imitate him as he imitates Christ, that would have made him a hypocrite.

The work and person of Jesus Christ has made it possible for a Christian to walk in an uninterrupted communion with God and not sin knowingly, if you believe this is sinlessless that's your choice, I see it at the normal Christian walk we are called into, to walk in the light as he is in the light and the blood of Jesus will cleanse us from all sin, it does not say only from actual sin and not from our sinful state, all means all.If you don't believe the blood of Jesus can cleanse us from all sin, you make sin more powerful than the blood that our Savior shed for us on the cross.

And I see this as accomplished only as we crucify the flesh and surrender to Jesus not only for a day as if that surrender was once for all at one moment in time but its actually a lifelong attitude of total surrender to Him. The only power to indwelling sin is the overcoming life of indwelling Christ within us. The secret is Christ in us, self has to be crucified daily, this is the only way to experience freedom from sin and that sanctification of heart that the Bible makes it a necessary requirement in the life of the believer.

Those that God has chosen he declares righteous in his sight because they believe his Son but the same Christians to whom he imputed righteousness of Christ in justification, he imparts the righteousness of Christ in sanctification by the same faith. There are two sides of the righteousness of God, one is the imputed righteousness and the imparted righteousness of Jesus. Those whom God declares righteous in his sight, are the same ones he makes righteous in Christ in the processs of sanctification.

Those who are genuinely regenerated and sanctified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Holy Spirit are the true Christians who are justified in the sight of God. (See 1Corinthians 7:11)

TomLaPalm said:

Paul said Believers sin,
Rom 7:19

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

But Sin is not accounted to us because of cHRIST

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No disagreement here.

TomLaPalm said:

Scripture is very clear flesh and blood will not be in Heaven.

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But we know flesh and bone will be...



Luke 24:39

King James Version (KJV)

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.




Now how does the glorified body fit into the OP?

What is different about that body than that which we are born in? I think several have already addressed this in this thread.

Secondly, I will just add the issue of those who die now who go to Heaven who have not yet been resurrected bodily. I think that is what the OP is asking, do we imagine that they are capable of sin now, and will they be capable of sin when they are resurrected?


God bless.

Darrell C said:

But we know flesh and bone will be...



Luke 24:39

King James Version (KJV)

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.




Now how does the glorified body fit into the OP?

What is different about that body than that which we are born in? I think several have already addressed this in this thread.

Secondly, I will just add the issue of those who die now who go to Heaven who have not yet been resurrected bodily. I think that is what the OP is asking, do we imagine that they are capable of sin now, and will they be capable of sin when they are resurrected?


God bless.

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That was Jesus as proof, Where was Jesus body when He went to Heaven?

TomLaPalm said:

Where was Jesus body when He went to Heaven?

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Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Jesus' body was fully intact as He ascended to heaven.

Pastor_Bob said:

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Jesus' body was fully intact as He ascended to heaven.

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wrong sequence, He had presented himself the sacrifice before. the resurrection. His body was in the tomb..
He had been with here on earth for 40? days with us before the ascension.

TomLaPalm said:

That was Jesus as proof, Where was Jesus body when He went to Heaven?

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His body went with Him, Tom.


God bless.

TomLaPalm said:

wrong sequence, He had presented himself the sacrifice before. the resurrection. His body was in the tomb..
He had been with here on earth for 40? days with us before the ascension.

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Wrong sequence? You ask "Where was His body when He went to Heaven?"

What does the sequence have to do with it? The same Body He presented as being flesh and bone to the disciples is the same body He ascended in.

He was in glorified form, as we all will be when we are caught up.


God bless.

Darrell C said:

Wrong sequence? You ask "Where was His body when He went to Heaven?"

What does the sequence have to do with it? The same Body He presented as being flesh and bone to the disciples is the same body He ascended in.

He was in glorified form, as we all will be when we are caught up.


God bless.

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Good grief,
When His body was in the tomb, where was Jesus?

TomLaPalm said:

Good grief,
When His body was in the tomb, where was Jesus?

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Sorry Charlie (Brown, lol), but you are not being specific in your question.

What Christ did while His physical body was yet in the tomb is irrelevant to His ascension (which you did not make clear as to which point in time you referred to in the question "Where was His body when He went to Heaven?) as well as to that period when His physical body was dead because (1) we usually separate the Lord from man in general in regards to sin, and (2) the Resurrection Body was the body He was raised in, which would cover the forty days He remained on the earth before His Ascension.

So what point is it that you are trying to make?

My personal view to your new question...

TomLaPalm said:

Good grief,
When His body was in the tomb, where was Jesus?

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...is that at this time the Lord in Spirit went into Hades and liberated the Just. I do think He went into Heaven in that effort but that His return to Heaven, which He spoke about to the disciples (i.e., "It is expedient that I go away," John 16:7) had a direct reference to Himself when He actually returns to Heaven.

So while the Son of God was in Heaven, the Son of Man was not, meaning, the taking on of human flesh creates a distinctive role for the Son of God which, while we might point to the fact that God had manifested to men prior to the Incarnation, should not, in my view, be equated to the Incarnation, for the simple reason that we see a day when that role begins.

And the only point I was trying to make is that the Body He rose in, by His own statement, has flesh and bone.


God bless.

I look forward to my resurrection. And free from this body of death.

well sai

David Michael Harris said:

I look forward to my resurrection. And free from this body of death.

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Well said.

Darrell C said:

Sorry Charlie (Brown, lol), but you are not being specific in your question.

What Christ did while His physical body was yet in the tomb is irrelevant to His ascension (which you did not make clear as to which point in time you referred to in the question "Where was His body when He went to Heaven?) as well as to that period when His physical body was dead because (1) we usually separate the Lord from man in general in regards to sin, and (2) the Resurrection Body was the body He was raised in, which would cover the forty days He remained on the earth before His Ascension.

So what point is it that you are trying to make?

My personal view to your new question...



...is that at this time the Lord in Spirit went into Hades and liberated the Just. I do think He went into Heaven in that effort but that His return to Heaven, which He spoke about to the disciples (i.e., "It is expedient that I go away," John 16:7) had a direct reference to Himself when He actually returns to Heaven.

So while the Son of God was in Heaven, the Son of Man was not, meaning, the taking on of human flesh creates a distinctive role for the Son of God which, while we might point to the fact that God had manifested to men prior to the Incarnation, should not, in my view, be equated to the Incarnation, for the simple reason that we see a day when that role begins.

And the only point I was trying to make is that the Body He rose in, by His own statement, has flesh and bone.


God bless.

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He went to Heaven first because He told Mary "do not touch because I have not yet ascended to the Father (as the pure undefiled Lamb sacrifice)

His "resurrected" body is part of the proof of His Truth, and verified His statements. The proof will also apply to the Second coming and possibly the Millennial reign..

The physical body of a man will not be in Heaven on the Throne

1Co 15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

TomLaPalm said:

He went to Heaven first because He told Mary "do not touch because I have not yet ascended to the Father (as the pure undefiled Lamb sacrifice)

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Tom, seriously, can you not see that He declares He has not yet ascended?

Did you not even read my post?

The Ascension is in relation to the Incarnation, rather than dealing with when the Son of God was in Haven, or went there. The Son is One with the Father and in that eternal sense He was in Heaven the entire time of the Incarnation.

TomLaPalm said:

His "resurrected" body is part of the proof of His Truth, and verified His statements. The proof will also apply to the Second coming and possibly the Millennial reign..

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Won't argue with this.

TomLaPalm said:

The physical body of a man will not be in Heaven on the Throne

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No idea where this comes from, and will just say that the physical, glorified Christ is on the Throne:


Revelation 3:21

King James Version (KJV)

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


I think it is your understanding of what is meant by "God's Throne" that might need to be reconsidered, and how that applies to the distinction we make between Christ...and all other men.

And without question the physical body of flesh and bone the Lord was raised in is in HEaven right now.

When the Church is caught up we too will be in physical bodies in Heaven.

TomLaPalm said:

1Co 15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

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Which brings us back to the original issue: flesh and bone is said to go into Heaven, and this is in regards to glorification.


God bless.

Darrell C said:

Tom, seriously, can you not see that He declares He has not yet ascended?

Did you not even read my post?

The Ascension is in relation to the Incarnation, rather than dealing with when the Son of God was in Haven, or went there. The Son is One with the Father and in that eternal sense He was in Heaven the entire time of the Incarnation.




Won't argue with this.




No idea where this comes from, and will just say that the physical, glorified Christ is on the Throne:


Revelation 3:21

King James Version (KJV)

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


I think it is your understanding of what is meant by "God's Throne" that might need to be reconsidered, and how that applies to the distinction we make between Christ...and all other men.

And without question the physical body of flesh and bone the Lord was raised in is in HEaven right now.

When the Church is caught up we too will be in physical bodies in Heaven.




Which brings us back to the original issue: flesh and bone is said to go into Heaven, and this is in regards to glorification.


God bless.

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you do tend to ramble and the if it appears you are incorrect, your posts are much longer

You said where He was while in the tomb was irrelevant, when it is exactly the opposite. Upon death he went to heaven while His body was here,, Exactly like me...
His Resurrection and Ascension are not like us, We will not ascend like He did and our resurrection from dead to living is spiritual, (I do believe in the resurrection of the physical dead to physical living as a sign to the in scripture ) But for eternity I do not want or need a physical body , If we have a "body" for our soul and spirit , it certainly will have little common with this one. I suggest it is more like the "angels" described in scripture.

David Michael Harris said:

I look forward to my resurrection. And free from this body of death.

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Free from 'this body of death' certainly, but not from my resurrection body.
'For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life' (2 Cor. 5:4).