May I suggest that you remind yourself of the O.P. where you address the term very clearly.
The reason that I'm wary of answering your continual questions is that I think you're trolling.Vooks said:
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Debunking Unconditional Eternal Security: John 15:1-6
- Thread starter vooks
- Start date
vooks
Active Member
I have yet to address the subject nowhere. Temporary believers is your invention. Either you are a believer or not
If you have run out of wits and can only copy paste a mishmash of verses, I forgive you
Luke 8:13; Acts 8:13, 21.
Another poster who exhibits three of the four stages of incompetence: first ignorance, then bluster and finally insult. You could go for bust and try violence as well, but fortunately you don't know where I live.
The Confession is perfectly clear but I doubt you have read the whole of theextract I posted.
However, I will post a dummy's guide for you when I have a little time.
I'd like to look further at what the 1689 Confession says about the Perseverance of the Saints, and assurance of salvation. I posted Articles XVII & XVIII in posts #34 and 35, but Vooks appears not to understand them.
The fact of the perseverance of the saints lies not in the saints themselves, but in
1. The dependability of the promises of God and
2. The blood and righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ.
God does not lie (Titus 1:2) and He does not change (Malachi 3:6). Therefore when we read verses like Romans 8:30, we can be certain that He who has begun a good work in us will carry through to completion (cf. Philippians 1:6).
On the cross, the Lord Jesus bore our sins, and His perfect righteousness in credited to us who believe (1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor. 5:21). God's justice is satisfied (Romans 3:26) and when He looks at us as Judge, He sees us as perfectly righteous in Christ (Numbers 23:21; Hebrews 8:12 etc.). As Father, of course, He is well aware of our failings and will chastise us for them (Hebrews 12:5-11) for our own good.
These things of course depend upon our faith and repentance, but since both these things are actually gifts of God (Ephesians 2:8; Acts 11:18), they do not ultimately depend upon us. True saving faith, however is not simply acquiescence to the proposition that there was someone called Jesus of Nazareth who lived a long time ago and did a lot of good stuff; it is understanding that you are a lost sinner under the righteous judgement of God, turning away from that sin (repenting) to Christ, trusting in His blood shed upon the cross to save you and following His commands as they are found in the Bible. Anyone who trusts in Christ in this way can be absolutely certain of salvation (John 6:37) because he is relying not in himself but upon God.
The confession speaks of 'temporary believers.' these are of two kinds: antinomians and legalists. Antinomians suppose that because they have prayed a sinner's prayer they are saved regardless of what they do (Romans 6:1-2). Such a faith is not of God; real faith will always result in action. If I tell you that Walmart are selling Dollar bills for a dime tomorrow, the evidence that you believe will be that you turn up at Walmart clutching a bag full of dimes. If you don't turn up that is evidence that (quite rightly) you don't believe me. All the heroes of faith in Hebrews 11 were people who did something. True saving faith will always lead to action, and yet it is nonetheless the work of God (Ephesians 2:10).
Legalists are those who suppose that they can satisfy God with their own righteousness (Luke 18:9ff; Romans 10:3). It can't be done; they will always fall short (Matthew 7:22). The child of God realises that at his very best he is an unprofitable servant and makes a point of repenting before God day by day.
The assurance of the believer can and should be absolutely sure and certain because it does not depend on him but upon God and is founded upon the perfect, finished work of Christ. Such assurance will not lead to pride or presumption, but to love and humility.
'Not what these hands have done
Can save this guilty soul;
Not what this toiling flesh has borne
can make my spirit whole.
Not what I feel and do
can give me peace with God;
Not all my prayers, and sighs and tears
can bear my awful load.
Thy work alone, O Christ,
can ease this weight of sin;
Thy blood alone, O Lamb of God,
Can give me peace within.
Thy love to me. O God,
Not mine, O Lord to Thee,
Can rid me of this dark unrest,
And set this spirit free.
Thy grace alone, O God,
To me can pardon speak;
Thy power alone, O Son of God,
Can this sore bondage break.
I bless the Christ of God,
I rest on love divine,
And with unfaltering lip and heart,
I call this Saviour mine.'
[Horatius Bonar]
The fact of the perseverance of the saints lies not in the saints themselves, but in
1. The dependability of the promises of God and
2. The blood and righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ.
God does not lie (Titus 1:2) and He does not change (Malachi 3:6). Therefore when we read verses like Romans 8:30, we can be certain that He who has begun a good work in us will carry through to completion (cf. Philippians 1:6).
On the cross, the Lord Jesus bore our sins, and His perfect righteousness in credited to us who believe (1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor. 5:21). God's justice is satisfied (Romans 3:26) and when He looks at us as Judge, He sees us as perfectly righteous in Christ (Numbers 23:21; Hebrews 8:12 etc.). As Father, of course, He is well aware of our failings and will chastise us for them (Hebrews 12:5-11) for our own good.
These things of course depend upon our faith and repentance, but since both these things are actually gifts of God (Ephesians 2:8; Acts 11:18), they do not ultimately depend upon us. True saving faith, however is not simply acquiescence to the proposition that there was someone called Jesus of Nazareth who lived a long time ago and did a lot of good stuff; it is understanding that you are a lost sinner under the righteous judgement of God, turning away from that sin (repenting) to Christ, trusting in His blood shed upon the cross to save you and following His commands as they are found in the Bible. Anyone who trusts in Christ in this way can be absolutely certain of salvation (John 6:37) because he is relying not in himself but upon God.
The confession speaks of 'temporary believers.' these are of two kinds: antinomians and legalists. Antinomians suppose that because they have prayed a sinner's prayer they are saved regardless of what they do (Romans 6:1-2). Such a faith is not of God; real faith will always result in action. If I tell you that Walmart are selling Dollar bills for a dime tomorrow, the evidence that you believe will be that you turn up at Walmart clutching a bag full of dimes. If you don't turn up that is evidence that (quite rightly) you don't believe me. All the heroes of faith in Hebrews 11 were people who did something. True saving faith will always lead to action, and yet it is nonetheless the work of God (Ephesians 2:10).
Legalists are those who suppose that they can satisfy God with their own righteousness (Luke 18:9ff; Romans 10:3). It can't be done; they will always fall short (Matthew 7:22). The child of God realises that at his very best he is an unprofitable servant and makes a point of repenting before God day by day.
The assurance of the believer can and should be absolutely sure and certain because it does not depend on him but upon God and is founded upon the perfect, finished work of Christ. Such assurance will not lead to pride or presumption, but to love and humility.
'Not what these hands have done
Can save this guilty soul;
Not what this toiling flesh has borne
can make my spirit whole.
Not what I feel and do
can give me peace with God;
Not all my prayers, and sighs and tears
can bear my awful load.
Thy work alone, O Christ,
can ease this weight of sin;
Thy blood alone, O Lamb of God,
Can give me peace within.
Thy love to me. O God,
Not mine, O Lord to Thee,
Can rid me of this dark unrest,
And set this spirit free.
Thy grace alone, O God,
To me can pardon speak;
Thy power alone, O Son of God,
Can this sore bondage break.
I bless the Christ of God,
I rest on love divine,
And with unfaltering lip and heart,
I call this Saviour mine.'
[Horatius Bonar]
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vooks
Active Member
You are full of violent words...there is such a thing as Christian jihadists after all
vooks
Active Member
I'd love to break it apart
Ok
This means those for who have no faith nor perseverance, God simply denied them these 'gifts'. He denies them gifts that would bring them eternal life. How does the expect the to be saved if He denies them the ONLY 'tools' of salvation?
Is the God of your theory interesting in saving all, or does He deliberately steer some to damnation?
Demas, did he possess true faith?
Very true
Very true.
But your current certainty does not rule out future apostasy. You may hope and believe all you want yet next week you apostasize
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Only if the promises of God are actually lies, if the blood of Christ does not save, and if His righteousness does not satisfy the justice of God.
Now then; how are you saved?
vooks
Active Member
God promises you can't possibly apostasize? Or He promises that even if that were the case, heaven is your home?
PS
By 'you' I mean another guy out there whose beliefs mirror yours to the t and not you @Martin Marprelate
Psalm 73:26. 'My flesh and my heart fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.'
Now, how about you? What is your hope that you will be saved at the Last day?
Or, as I rather suspect, have you no views on the subject and are just trolling?
PS.
By 'you' I mean another guy out there whose beliefs [or otherwise] mirror yours to the t and not you @vooks
vooks
Active Member
Thank you,
So the various warnings against apostasy are inapplicable to you?
[Now, how about you? What is your hope that you will be saved at the Last day?[/quote]
I'm saved and safe as long as I have faith in Jesus Christ
They and intelligently disguise your passive aggression
Ok!
Whatever it takes to avoid stalking
So you have turned your faith into a work and so long as you keep doing it in your own strength, you're OK, is that it?