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Featured ten-reasons-to-not-ask-jesus-into-your-heart-0

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Mar 29, 2016.

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  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    More eisegesis I see. That passage never, I reiterate...NEVER....says they asked Christ to come into their hearts. It says God sent the Spirit into their hearts. This is divine quickening at work, and in this divine quickening, then, and only then, will any cry out for mercy from Him.


    Huh? He came redeem them that were His, not those who were not His. Read Hosea and how he bought Gomer, his bride, back. That was us. We were God's but were with Satan, in his grasp. God in Christ, redeemed His own sheep.

    Every fallen, unregenerate person willfully rejects Him. He came to lay His life down for His sheep. Period. End of story. Those who received Him were those who were born of God. See John 1:13.

    Cart before horse...per usual. The reason why we believe is the Spirit has already came in and quickened us and causes us to believe. Ppl do not believe and then get the new birth. Repent and believe the gospel is Jesus' command.

    The Jews are scattered because of their unbelief. Those who believe are grafted in again. Any Jew who believes has already been given a new Spirit. The bible also says all of Israel will be saved. Explain that please.
     
    #21 SovereignGrace, Mar 29, 2016
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think that to prove your point you need to deliver a passage that has a sinner seeking after God and inviting him into their heart. For me, passages that speak of God dwelling in us, of our bodies as temples of God, of our faith placed in Christ who brings to us the indwelling of the Spirit….none of that is sufficient towards a lost man or woman inviting Christ into their heart. It simply is not the same.

    However, if you are talking the position that there is a necessary human response then that is a different matter. There is human responsibility and a human response to salvation. I believe, however, that it is not a matter of man’s will that men repent but of God’s.

    I also understand the argument that Ezekiel 36 is applicable to Israel. I am not interested in arguing whether or not this is speaking to or about Israel, the Church, or individual believers. Instead, I will offer that God is immutable. If He works in the hearts of Israelites in a specific manner as His people to His glory, then He works the same in the hearts of believers today. If God is faithful to Israel as His chosen people then He is faithful to the Church as His chosen people. The passage applies because it is not about men or nations but about God.
     
    #22 JonC, Mar 29, 2016
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  3. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    now wait if God gives those who are His faith, then all who are unregenerate don't willfully reject. For God makes them reject they have no choice. You see either all men have volition to believe or reject or no one does. So do unregenerate people willfully reject or does God make them reject. To be clear I believe and scripture is clear when properly understood that ALL mankind has volition free to choose for God or to reject God.
     
    #23 revmwc, Mar 29, 2016
  4. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    I don't see the "into my heart" language to be problematic. Describing the supernatural, salvation, can be tricky. Even repentance is a metaphor, turn and go the other direction. Exact verbiage isn't prescribed, the attitude of the heart, however is. God is able to save even when the best words I have fail to adequately express the intention of my heart.
     
    #24 go2church, Mar 29, 2016
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That is only true if God gives disbelief and belief (which some may contend to be the case). But God drawing only a specific group of people to Himself (and not everyone) does not mean that those who reject God do not do so willingly.

    To be clear, I agree with you that ALL mankind has the volition to chose or reject God. The caveat being that none are willing to choose God (they are able to make a free choose, but unable to choose God because they are unwilling).

    How does that work in my understanding? All men freely reject God. None are righteous, none choose God. But God chooses a people out of fallen man to be his own. This, I believe, was foreshadowed in the choosing of Israel, was fulfilled when God gave His only Son as a guilt offering and purchased a people with His own precious blood, and is being fulfilled through the ministry of reconciliation that is continued through the Body of Christ and reaches it's ultimate fulfillment when the Son Himself is made subject to the Father so that God may be all in all.
     
    #25 JonC, Mar 29, 2016
  6. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    All this is saying imo is that God has to be ''fair' according to man's reason. Note Romans 9:20.

    God's ways or methods do not fit into our box. He has revealed to us in Scripture how He operates. That He saves anyone is a mystery.
     
    #26 Internet Theologian, Mar 29, 2016
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    God saving a people out of a multitude is not unfair unless He is somehow obligated to save all men (which He isn't). Mercy isn't an entitlement, so I don't think fairness comes into play - unless one is claiming that God had no right to give to some unless He gives to all...like when you were in elementary school and brought candy to class.
     
    #27 JonC, Mar 29, 2016
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  8. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    God can do as He pleases, however if He is just and true as Deuteronomy 32:4 He is a God of truth and without iniquity just and right is He. So if He gives faith to some and not to others while allowing men by there free will to willfully reject Him does that not bring into question His being a just God as scripture says?
     
    #28 revmwc, Mar 29, 2016
  9. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Hey, did you see my response in post #17?

    If you can answer that it will help you to practice 2 Timothy 2:15 and hold better insight into exposition due to understanding context.
     
    #29 Internet Theologian, Mar 29, 2016
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  10. Kevin

    Kevin Active Member

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    images (9).jpg
     
    #30 Kevin, Mar 29, 2016
  11. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Of course He is just and true, and no that doesn't bring Him into question. It is mere Romans 9:20 stance. It is decrying God as not fair, and not just, 'unless'...
     
    #31 Internet Theologian, Mar 29, 2016
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    When he choose Israel instead of the other nations....was that just and right , my dispensational friend?

    6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

    7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
     
    #32 Iconoclast, Mar 29, 2016
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  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What you mean, I take it, is how can God be just and not just let everyone perish. And I agree with you that this does call God's justness into question....if salvation centers on man. But if salvation in truth centers on God, then no, it does not call God's justness into question as God exercises both (justice and mercy) not with the ultimate goal of saving man but with the ultimate goal of glorifying God.
     
    #33 JonC, Mar 29, 2016
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So, do you think God must always practice your standard of what is right and wrong? Might he not know something you don't know?

    Do you think Romans 9:21 is wrong? "Or hasn’t the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor?"
     
    #34 TCassidy, Mar 29, 2016
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  15. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    None of the above fit, since soteriology deals with the means and way of salvation, 2 is not biblical for the heart, it's good to have fellowship, but this passage doesn't fit that, of course Gal. 4:5-7 must be taken in context. It of course deals with Christ mission of salvation and How upon recieving Christ we also are immediately indwelt by the Holy Spirit. About deals with the benefits of salvation
     
    #35 revmwc, Mar 29, 2016
  16. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    When we place rules and restrictions on God, of fairness and justness, based on 'unless God...' thinking, (Romans 9:20 again) does that not lean toward idolatry, and man creating God in his image?
     
    #36 Internet Theologian, Mar 29, 2016
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  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yeah. I guess he has to give candy to all the kids. Even the one with diabetes mellitus that his "fairness" just put into the hospital in a coma! Rolleyes
     
    #37 TCassidy, Mar 29, 2016
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  18. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    No God practices His standard which is much higher than yours or mine
     
    #38 revmwc, Mar 29, 2016
  19. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you don't know the context of Galatians 4. Firstly you turned it into a passage on soteriology. It is not. Thus your application is not according to 2 Timothy 2:15.

    Secondly my last point (3) showed what its context entails. You're just not willing to be taught or to take time and see the true context that is so plain. (I thought)
     
    #39 Internet Theologian, Mar 29, 2016
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  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So, you may think God is being unfair by electing some and not others but in fact He is being very fair. He just didn't tell you why His way is more fair than yours. :)
     
    #40 TCassidy, Mar 29, 2016
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