Featured The Baptism With the Holy Ghost

I guess there is no point trying to help you understand that this is the point: the life Christ came to bestow was not available to the fathers.

If I START YELLING OUT MY POINTS would that DO ANY GOOD?

lol

Secondly, oh great exegeter, you miss a pretty simple lesson in Hebrews as well. You impose salvation on an eternal basis and understanding of the Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

...to unbelievers.

Nice job. Perhaps if you could get you emotions under control you might give attention to what is actually being said in Scripture.

Note:


Hebrews 4:1-3

King James Version (KJV)


1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.


Do you really not understand that the rest provided to them was a physical rest? Do you really not understand that the Gospel provided to them was in fact that which is recorded in Scripture? Perhaps if you could put Chapter Three in as an element of your "exegesis" then you might see that in view is not the first person in the Wilderness rejecting the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but rejecting the will of God as revealed to them. They were not told, until Christ came, the significance of the Serpent being raised. And even in Christ's day...they still did not understand.

Just as you do not.

Here it is again:


John 6:47-51

King James Version (KJV)


47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48 I am that bread of life.

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.


Do you really not understand the Lord is contrasting the provision they had in the wilderness with the provision that has come down from Heaven? And that the True Bread is His flesh?

Parroting commentaries is not exegesis, brother.


Continued...

 

This is right up there with...

Here is the Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ:



1 Corinthians 2

King James Version (KJV)


6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.



Romans 16:24-26

King James Version (KJV)


24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


There is nothing Gentile specific in these two passages, and even when it is specific to Gentile Inclusion...


Colossians 1:25-27

King James Version (KJV)


25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


...there is still no possible way for you to impose understanding of this Mystery into the Old Testament.

Let me explain why: because we already know that both Jew and Gentile, and man in General before the Law was established...were justified by faith.

Understand?

If you say "Well the Jews knew what the Gospel was" you will, or should...immediately see the error in that.

It is a matter of understanding that he Gospel, while indeed given in the Old Testament, as already mentioned in posts you have ignored, and Scripture you have ignored, the understanding of it was not.

You claim to be going "post to post?" Laughable. You are ignoring everything that has been said. First you say "None of the above," and apparently, after actually giving some thought to it, you then decide to give your definition of what the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is. You ignore the posts given, then beg off discussion because I am ignorant of the fact that Christ is the Baptizer (false argument), then, that I am ignorant of the fact that man is born spiritually dead (false argument, then I am teaching Catholic Doctrine (false argument), now...I am teaching another Gospel.

WHich is a false argument.

Just because you think men were regenerate in the Old Testament based on arguments I have many times addressed...doesn't make it so. Just because you have no self control concerning your emotions and pride doesn't make it so.

So when you can start addressing the points, many of which I will apparently have to reiterate because you either ignore them or you simply reiterate the same poor arguments over again...you might come to an understanding of the condition of man prior to Christ's Redemptive Work.

As I said, you are not alone...most equate salvation in the Old Testament with salvation in Christ, and do not understand the difference.

And most, like you, ignore the points raised and make it personal. Try to keep it doctrinal, Biblicist. Try to learn to properly emphasize what you say, Biblicist. Try to actually quote everything your antagonist says, Biblicist, and it will be much harder for you to ignore the points made.

Now, to make this point again, in which you raise the false argument that I...

That is a false argument. The fact that revelation is progressive...

...is the point.

This is the Gospel revealed in the Old Testament:



Isaiah 53:7-11

King James Version (KJV)

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.


But it is not "revealed" to men that they might understand it.

That is what you are missing in regards to the progressive nature of revelation.

But again, I have already made this point. Will you ignore it again?"

How about going back and dealing with those points?


Continued...

 

There is no argument that the Gospel is found throughout Scripture...but the understanding was not given to men in those Ages.

You are denying what Paul taught by saying it was.

You want to show me one person who was trusting in the Risen Savior? I've asked you several times, and it is clear that you have not addressed the detailed responses I gave to justify this position.

Shall I say you are teaching another gospel, because you are teaching men can be saved without trusting in Christ?

So Abraham was a born again believer when he was called?

Abraham had his sin removed by offering up animal sacrifice?

Abraham went to Heaven when he died?

The only thing being condemned here is man apart from spiritual union with God.

The remedy for that condition was Christ dying in our place and sending the Spirit of God.

And when did that happen? lol

You miss even the point given that it began...when the True Bread came down from Heaven.

Israel was not receiving Christ in the Wilderness, to a man they were judged for their rebellion. They had manna, not the True Bread. They had the rest of a physical land...not Rest in Christ.

You are laying again foundational principles of the Doctrine of Christ, which you are forbidden to do.

This is true.

Now, when you can understand when they received Him, then you will understand why your carnal view of the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is in error. You will see why equating salvation in Christ through the New Covenant differs from relationship with God through the First Covenant.


Continued...

 

No, we have the Lord rebuking Nicodemus for a carnal understanding.

That is precisely what you are guilty of.

Nicodemus should not have been thinking in physical terms, but in spiritual, and according to the promise of God.

Christ also taught that men must believe on Him, and again...who did that? I have showed you the disciples in their carnal understanding, particularly Peter...who was in opposition to Christ even dying, because that would have interfered with his carnal understanding, which was the only one available to him.

So you feel that men do not have to trust in the Risen Savior to be born again?

You think the Gospel of Jesus Christ is simply the First Principles? That as long as someone trusts that a Messiah is coming and is going to establish a Kingdom on earth...they are born again?

These are the last days, Biblicist.

While there is a future fulfillment in Prophecy, as well as in salvation (the redemption of our bodies, the Millennial Kingdom, the Eternal State), are you really going to deny the fulfillment of Christ in regards to Eternal Redemption?

I have not failed to read anything, Biblicist, and I have addressed your posts in full. Perhaps you could return the favor.

So there were Gentiles who were circumcised in heart that...could be brought into His sanctuary?

Honestly, for such great exegesis, you miss some pretty basic details.

You say my quote is a future event, yet you quote from details concerning the Millennial Kingdom...to counter the Scripture you ignore?

You need to read the Book of Hebrews somewhere along the line.

Nice.

Thanks for showing you equate salvation from Old to New.

And this is the primary error most make.


Continued...

 

Your proof-text:

Acts 10:43King James Version (KJV)

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


Your proof-text back in its context:



Acts 10:37-43

King James Version (KJV)


37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


Do you really want to nullify Paul's teaching of the Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ with this? You really want to say that the Prophets understood the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Peter disagrees with that here, because he is specific to the events which took place concerning the Gospel, and when it began, who were witnesses, and Who Christ truly was.

You want to say Cornelius was a born again believer?

Then you are indeed preaching another gospel, because Peter makes it clear that Cornelius and his house are saved at this time:


Acts 11:13-18

King James Version (KJV)


13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


So we know the Gentiles were not given eternal life through salvation in Christ, which means...

...only Hebrews/Jews were saved in the Old Testament.

What do you think "the words whereby thou and thy household shall be saved..." means?

You want to argue that these men were born again believers in relationship with God but simply need public accreditation so people would know they were also being saved?

What do you think "The Holy Ghost falling on Cornelius and his house the same 'as us' in the beginning means?"

What beginning is in view?

Was there "one man" under the Law, Biblicist? The Jew?

No, there was one man created in Christ Jesus when men began to be reconciled to God through Christ.

But, I can understand how embarrassing it is for some who have never really put any thought into this. I can FULLY UNDERSTAND the EMOTIONAL OUTBURST YOU ARE DISPLAYING RIGHT NOW.




Continued...

 

And this is why they were justified, Biblicist, but not perfected, and died in faith...still awaiting the promise.

Here it is again:


Acts 1:4-5

King James Version (KJV)


4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


The Baptism with the Holy Ghost is the Promise of the Father, and taught by Christ.

You are free to show how this does not show this clearly, and what it is that Christ had taught them in regards to their receiving the Promised Spirit.

I have done some detailed posts you have ignored that speak to that issue. But you are selective in what you will and will not address. That should be embarrassing for you, unless you simply do not realize you are doing it.

No, BIblicist, lol...Hebrews is quite clear, the shadow/type/figure/parable is fulfilled in Christ.


That's why it says they died in faith, not having received the promises, nor having been made perfect.

Perfection is not speaking about the redemption of the Body, the Millennial Kingdom, nor the Eternal State.


Hebrews 10:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


He is contrasting the First Covenant (Covenant of Law) and its inadequacies with the New Covenant.

That is why I gave you this...


Hebrews 12:22-24

King James Version (KJV)

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


You are equating what men received under the Law with what they receive under the New Covenant, and missing one of the prominent themes of Hebrews. Read it ten times, and you will understand.


Continued...

 

Guess what...they have:


Hebrews 11:13

King James Version (KJV)

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


Hebrews 11:39-40

King James Version (KJV)


39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.



Hebrews 12:22-24

King James Version (KJV)


22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


Now back up and see what those under Law had come to:



Hebrews 12:18-21

King James Version (KJV)


18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake.


Look at the provision they did have:



Hebrews 10:1-4

King James Version (KJV)


1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


...and contrast that with what Christ provided:



Hebrews 10:10-14

King James Version (KJV)


10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


You are failing to distinguish between the Two Covenants. Both established and maintained with the shedding of blood. You know the blood of the First, but you do not fully comprehend the Blood of the Second:


Matthew 26:28

King James Version (KJV)

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


And in case you are not aware of it, it is the New Covenant He speaks about here.


Continued...

 

Sorry, brother, we have that inheritance now:


1 Peter 1

King James Version (KJV)

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


Do you regularly deny such clearly stated biblical truths?

And of course, you know I am going to have to yank your chain a little in this process, right?



We are born again unto a living hope...to an inheritance, not the hope of an inheritance.

Secondly, that is the point of the Promises of God, and when you can discern what those promises are and when they are fulfilled you will be on your way to grasping the magnitude of the Cross of Christ, and leave the majority of believers who make the same mistake you do...equating salvation under Law with salvation in Christ.

It is no different than the fact that we have not yet received our glorified bodies, though we are still saved. The Old Testament Saint had not received much of what we do, though they were still saved. They were saved by grace through faith like as we, but, that does not mean they were born again, or, had received the Spirit so clearly taught wouldn't come until after Christ was glorified and returned to Heaven.

You grammatical suicide is seen in numerous scholarly efforts, and it will never impose the Spirit being given before He is given. You, like most, have a problem understanding that a promise s a promise until fulfilled, and that is precisely what is in view in Hebrews 11.

So you say, yet if this is true, you should have no problem going back to everything you have ignored and properly exegeting the Scripture given to show that the Spirit was not given until Pentecost, that the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is when men began receiving the Promised Spirit, and that your view, and that men were born again believers despite the fact this is impossible apart from the Eternal indwelling taught by Christ in John 14 in the prophetic tense.

Your support for that? It must have been possible because "The Lord would not have demanded it of Nicodemus if it were not possible." This is actually the strongest argument those who believe men were regenerated prior to Pentecost have, yet it hangs on the error of Nicodemus...

...which is rebuked.

Not exactly something I would want to hang my hat on.


Continued...

 

This...


John 4:1-2

King James Version (KJV)


4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)


...proves that men were regenerate and had received the Spirit of God?

Honestly. Biblicist, can you see that the Lord is not Baptizing here, and that water baptism is in view?

Remember...Christ is the Baptizer?

Put two and two together, my friend.

I agree. Back up, address the posts, and you will be on baord as the second person to address everything his antagonist has said, both points and Scripture.



Or, keep throwing a tantrum. Up to you.

It's not opinion that the Spirit had not yet been sent.

lol

Prophetic Tense, amigo.

There can be no inflow if the Spirit is not yet sent, because Christ is not yet glorified.

As I said, reiterating the same argument doesn't make it right.

As far as having everlasting life being present tense, there is no argument there: the Old Testament Saints had everlasting life in the Prophetic Tense but that does not mean they had received the Spirit of God or were born again.

You will not get that from anything Scripture teaches, because if you could, then we would see contradiction to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.


God bless.

 

But for many, there is an equality of the Provision found under Law and preceding Covenantal Eras as there is under the New Covenant established by Christ.

Pretty sad, no?

Don't entirely agree with that, because Scripture is consistent that God has always worked in the hearts of men, and that relationship was always initiated by God, not man.

The ministry of the Spirit of God in the Old Testament is basically identical to what we call the filling of the Holy Ghost, in which God comes upon men for the purpose of empowerment. When King David is anointed, we are told "The Spirit of God came upon Him from that day forward," and we are never told that the Spirit of God departed from him, as we see in the case of King Saul.

This, my friend, was what the Lord meant here:


John 14:16-18

King James Version (KJV)


16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


This is simply basic. I have never been a member of a Baptist Church that did not make this distinction, ye many Baptists here kick at this as though their lives depended on it, when the only thing hagnging in the balance is...their pride.

While we might make a case for that, I think a general understanding of the Whole Counsel would deny that. It is my view that everyone who came to obedience to the revealed will of God experienced the Ministry of the Spirit.

We know that everyone is held culpable in Israel for rejecting Him:


Acts 7:50-52

King James Version (KJV)


51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

I'm going to pretend you didn't just ask that.



What I will ask is...who is Paul speaking of? The Church? Or all of the Just of all time? And I mean historically, it is not argued that the Just of all time make up that One Fold of the One Shepherd Christ taught.

Not just Hebrews...but we see this Basic Bible Principle...throughout the Entire Bible.

The New Covenant was what was in view when God said the Seed would crush the head of the Serpent. It is in view when God promises Abrah that through his seed would all families of the earth be blessed. It is what was in view when David prophesied, and Isaiah, and all the Psalmists and Prophets...about Christ.

Here is a good example:


Galatians 3:17-19

King James Version (KJV)


17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


The writer of Hebrews goes through a lot of trouble expounding the Gospel of Christ from the First Covenant, yet, somehow many seem to miss this.

So to answer your question...

...they ignore it.


God bless.

 

Not sure how you can see the disciples and the 120 as having received the Spirit.

But, if you want to impose that so you can retain your pulpit bred understanding...have at it.

In the Old Testament the Redeemer was known in the foundational teaching the Writer of Hebrews demands is not lain again.

That is, there is One God...hear Him.

What they did not understand was a Trinitarian view which is why so many reviled Christ...because He "made Himself God."

Here is the understanding provided the Old Testament Saint:


Isaiah 43:3

King James Version (KJV)

3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.


However, if you want to impose an understanding of God manifest in the flesh prior to the revelation of this mystery...have at it:



1 Timothy 3:16

King James Version (KJV)


16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


Oh Paul...where did we go wrong?

Seems there is a bit of controversy...for some.

Okay, so I am teaching Catholic and works-based salvation, lol.

You want to show where?

Can you show where I said men were justified by works? Did I not say they were justified by faith, and in fact is that not the point you cannot grasp?

They were justified?

There is a difference, Biblicist, from receiving a good report (which is temporal) and being made perfect.

And they were not, they were justified by faith through grace...like as we.

However, we are not going to see men Baptized with the Holy Ghost like as it happened unto the disciples at the beginning, which was Pentecost...not the creation of the World, not at the beginning of Christ's Ministry.

By the way, that's all been addressed in the posts you cherry-picked.


Continued...

 

Actually, you are asserting it is another Gospel, I am showing from Scripture that God is just, and no respecter of persons, which has contextual relevance to the distinction between Jews (who received the Oracles of God) and Gentiles who did not, who showed the Law, not just the works of the Law, but the Law, that is, God's will...written on their hearts.

They were faithful to the revelation God provided them. By this, when they are judged by Jesus Christ, shall they stand or fall.

I didn't say it, Paul said, and I would remind you that this is...inspired, so God said it.

And could you quote the Scripture I post? You seem to think you have an audience to which you cater to, so would you actually quote the Scripture I present andlet them judge for themselves if you commentary makes sense and invalidates my point?

Here is what I quoted:



Romans 2:11-16

King James Version (KJV)


11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


You distinguish between the Law and the works of the Law, but can I remind the point Paul makes is the doers of the Law shall be justified?

How is that out of context? How is this you addressing the point? How are these Gentiles not doers of the Law.

And most importantly...did they receive eternal life for being obedient to the Law?

That is more important than asking you where you concocted works-based salvation, but then, you are having some trouble understanding the difference between the Justified Old Testament Saint and those who have been born again and indwelt by the Spirit sent at Pentecost.

Those who died in faith are the "spirits (that's the immaterial aspect of men, Biblicist, which is that aspect of man who departs from the physical body when he dies) of Just men made perfect."

Now you raise another false argument. How many is that now, three, four?

I have never denied that man is completely incapable because he is, a you tried to impose another false argument...spiritually dead. Separated from God.

This has nothing to do with works, yet because you cannot stay on point you have to create diversionary false arguments in order to sound as though you are in line with Scripture.

Try arguing the points I am making, and stop raising false arguments.


Continued...

 

That is correct. Nor had their sins been forgiven.


God bless.