Featured Redefining Draw to mean God uses a Tractor Beam.

In a recently closed thread, JonC posted the following:

"I didn't notice ("drag" was the literal definition..."draw" vs. "drag" by an inward power...I was concentrating on the "inward power" being of God and not man...not whether it was "draw" or "drag"...but I appreciate the correction).

The verse indicates, then, that we were "drawn by an inward power"...but what is this power? Is it our own "human response"? Not according to Scripture - it is God's "drawing". God "draws us with an inward power". Does this mean that God attracts us? You could use that, but only if you are speaking of "attract" in such a way as to include an inherent "inward power".

Here you:

1. take "draw" remove it from a connection to it's literal definition ("drag"),
2. replace it with "draw" as a metaphoric definition ("draw with an inward power")
3. and then consult an English dictionary to make "draw" read "attract" ("attract with an inward power").
4. get rid of God's hand in the process ("with an inward power" being the work of the Father)
5. reduce the original "draw with an inward power" down to "attract"
6. and add "human response" to conclude that God attracts all men, who come as a human response.

And you denounce other interpretations as taking liberties with the text.

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps God drawing people means exactly that? Maybe we do not have to change it to a metaphor, and then exchange part of the metaphor for another word, and then add "human response". Maybe if we pause a moment, simply looking at the "inward power" being (according to Scripture) of the Father and not a "human response" we can simply move on and know that God drew us to Himself"

One of the lexiconal meanings attributed to the Greek word translated draw in John 12:32 is draw by inward power. But is this the only meaning given? Of course not.

Here is the actual quote, "

1. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

So a Tractor Beam is no where in view. God draws us with lovingkindness. Our human response to Jesus suffering and dying on the cross (high and lifted up) is to be attracted to the One who died for us.

All these charges that I am not presenting an unbiased view are simply an effort to undercut the mainstream view.

1) Did I replace the literal meaning for the metaphoric meaning, or did JonC replace the metaphoric meaning with the literal meaning?

2) Did I edit the lexiconal meaning to exclude "lead" and "impel?"

3) Is the only place the Greek word (G1670-helko) is said to mean "attract" in the KJV Dictionary?
Here is Thayer's "I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32."
God draws by lovingkindness, Jeremiah 31:3. Clearly our human response to God's revelation is in view, not a supernatural tractor beam.

4) Did I "get rid" of the Father's influence? No, it is the Father who does the "drawing" but by an attractive appeal rather than a tractor beam.

5) As used in John 6:44 and John 12:32, draw means attract. To claim it means a tractor beam ignores the lexicons, and redefines attract to mean tractor beam.

6) Did I "add" human response, or is that how God leads us to Christ? Read Jeremiah 31:3 again, human response to God"s lovingkindness is in view. I did not add human response, someone seems to want to delete it.

Bottom line no valid argument has been made to support that draw does not mean attract at John 6:44 and 12:32.

 

"John 6:44. [draw him] It is the same word as is used John 12:32; ‘will draw all men unto Me.’ The word does not necessarily imply force, still less irresistible force, but merely attraction of some kind, some inducement to come. Comp. ‘with loving-kindness have I drawn thee’ (Jeremiah 31:3), and Virgil’s trahit sua quemque voluptas."

God leads and some follow Him to Christ.

 

Luther says on this passage: "The drawing is not like that of the executioner, who draws the thief up the ladder to the gallows; but it is a gracious allurement, such as that of the man whom everybody loves, and to whom everybody willingly goes."

 

LOL Martin, in the examples you cited, Jeremiah 31:3, etc, the word is used to describe the attraction of lovingkindness, not a tractor beam from a SyFi spaceship. Luther said "allurement" in the quote. There is no support whatsoever in the Lexicons for allurement's irresistibility.

We have John 6:44, John 12:32, Jeremiah 31:3 and Song of Solomon 1:4 using the word to describe attraction, allurement and the winsome nature of lovingkindness. No need to rewrite the definition as God's tractor beam.

 

I am sorry Martin, you never saw Star Wars, but tractor beams are used to pull (compel) the good guys spaceship into the bad guys space ship. Sorry for confusing you.

I looked at your verses, but concluded they were non-germane.

Certainly Mark 1:16-20 addressing Jesus calling His disciples has no bearing either on the meaning of draw, or the fiction of the efficacious call.

Psalm 110:3 refers to people committed to Yahweh, volunteering to serve. The opposite of a tractor beam.

Acts 21:30 uses helkuo in the literal sense, so again non-germane.

James 2:6, ditto.

Acts 16:19, ditto

John 18:10, ditto

John 21:6, ditto

John 21:11, ditto

But the metaphoric uses remain, John 6:44, 12:32, Jeremiah 31:3, and Song of Solomon 1:4. No need to hide them in a smoke screen.

 

Hi Martin, all your verses were non-germane. You simply read between the lines and claim what is not taught. The disciples were looking for the promised Messiah.

Inward power refers to the allurement of charisma. God draws by lovingkindness, not irresistible grace.

Volunteers chose to support God. Not conscripts.

The from the beginning of what? You have no idea. Since they were chosen through faith in the truth, the beginning appears to be the beginning of the New Covenant. It's a lock.

Do not rewrite John 6:37 to say All that the Father draws will come to Me. Not how it reads.

Bottom line, draw when used metaphorically refers to our human response to the attraction of God's lovingkindness. Christ dying for us draws us to Him. But not irresistibly, for many choose to continue to store up wrath.

 

Yes, John 6:44 stands against the rewrites and redefinition of the nameless doctrine.

God draws by the allurement of His lovingkindness, especially when He died for all mankind.

Scripture provides two rules for arriving in Christ (coming to Him positionally) and they are:

1) No one can come unless they are drawn by the call of the gospel.
2) No one can come unless the Father allows it. He did not allow Judas to come.​

 

Lets look at these bogus arguments, skipping the gratuitous you must be a heretic.
How do we come to
and arrive in Christ, God gives us to Christ, He transfers us into Christ, He puts us in Christ, we are in Christ by His doing.

I have said repeatedly that the people of Matthew 23:13 were blocked, they did not complete their entry into the kingdom of heaven. Yet Martin cannot seem to resist posting misinformation to obfuscate.

If a person is drawn, then they may place their devotion and faith in Christ. If their faith is such that God credits it as righteousness, then He alone puts them into Christ. That is why scripture says we are chosen through faith in the Truth.

Stand by for more wholesale denial of God's word.