Do babies go to heaven when they die?

2 Samuel 12:23: "But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."

What did David mean by "go to him"? There's at least two options: (1) David would go to heaven as his child did, or (2) David would go to the grave (Sheol) as his child did. I don't see anything in the text that would indicate which of those two readings is correct.

However, there's a similar passage that sheds more light on this. When Jacob is confronted with Joseph's bloodied robe, he says something very similar to what David would later say:

Genesis 37:35: "All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted and said, 'No, I shall go down to Sheol to my son, mourning.' Thus his father wept for him."

Based on this and other Old Testament references to Sheol, I don't think 2 Samuel 12:23 supports the idea that all babies go to heaven.

To answer the opening post, I think the fate of babies is in God's hands. God will do what is just.

 

I like the bit where Pauls says, "I too have the Spirit of God".

From what I have so far learnt about God makes me say what I say.

"Phillip, have I been with you this long and you still dont know me"...

God is Love.

David

 

I think people are obsessed with Hell, I do not even like the English sevententh century word.

Why not talk more about positive things.

"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me--practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you".

Apostle Paul


David

 

David was talking about going TO his son. No doubt David was saved. So he (the baby and eventually David) went to where saved people go.

Jacob was talking about mourning for his son, Joseph, until he went to the grave (or died himself). No doubting the salvation of these two either.

Gotta get to work.

 

Both verses speak of a father going to where his dead son is. In one verse, that place is clarified as being Sheol. I don't see any reason to assume David was saying anything different than what Jacob said.

I agree that Jacob and Joseph were saved, but verses like this don't tell us anything about who went to heaven.

 

Oops, my first sentence should have been "...going to where his apparently dead son is." Of course, Joseph wasn't really dead.

 

Lordy - Lordy - Lordy

Let's just kill all the men and start the human race from dem sinless womenfolk. After all dat Mary was a Holy Holy girl - no sin dere.

We have the technology - we can do it - we can make the sinless human being. And who knows it might only cost 6 million dollars!

This sin being passed down through semen foolishness is quite well poorly argued anywhere. And in all truth is rubbish - plain ol' unadulterated human defecation.

Be like the little children Jesus said
they good kids and since Jesus is using them as an illustrative point one would think - Hey maybe at this moment and time the kids are going to heaven!

Age of innocence - and all that
We t'aint born sinful we are born sinners tho - So unless God kills us before we commit our first sin - we all sin and deserve Hell!

Btw - Im not even sure what Im typing here - but Im pretty sure its right - Go COLDS!

 

Try reading: "I'll Hold You In Heaven" by Jack Hayford. Available on www.amazon.com

 

And both father's trusted in the salvation of God. When we talk about our own passing, we don't refer our destination of being in the grave. And I, personally, don't believe that either of these men were referring to going to hell or to meeting their son in the ground.

David said the baby couldn't return to him, but that he would go to the baby. Common sense and simple faith, minus "deep" theology, would tell us that the baby went to be with the Lord and that David would join them at his passing.

Jacob's expression in Genesis 37:35 is simply a father saying he will mourn his son's (apparent) death until the day he dies.

 

Matthew 18:2-4: "And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, 'Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.' "

If this passage means all children are saved, does the following passage mean all poor people are saved?

Luke 6:20: "And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: 'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.' "

In one place Jesus told a crowd that they needed to become like children to enter the kingdom of heaven, and in another he told a rich man that he needed to sell all his possessions to inherit eternal life (Mark 10:17-27). I don't think either case tells us about the righteousness or heaven-bound status of all children or all people without posessions.

I could post many other verses too. Suffice it to say that the Bible has even more good things to say about the poor than about children, including that God cares for them in a special way. That doesn't mean all poor people or all children are saved without exception.

That only shows that we talk differently than many inspired authors of Scripture. The grave is quite often personified as an actual destination that all share (especially in Job, Psalms and Ecclesiastes). This doesn't negate the truth about heaven and hell, but we shouldn't read heaven and hell into verses that aren't talking about it.

So when Jacob said "I shall go down to Sheol to my son", he was speaking of going to heaven?

Regardless of what common sense tells you, I'm more interested in what Scripture tells us. 2 Samuel 12:23 does not indicate whether David or his son went to heaven or hell. You can read heaven into that text, but it isn't there.

Also, I don't think allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture qualifies as "deep" theology.

 

Who did Jesus die for?

 

From http://www.layhands.com/DoBabiesGoToHeaven.htm

 

From http://www.raptureready.com/faq/faq322.html

 

Gershom, I mainly agree with you (or whoever you are quoting) on the Romans texts. What I disagree with is using 2 Samuel 12:23 and Matthew 18:2-4 to support the idea that all babies go to heaven.

Romans seems to be quite clear that God is able to justly judge even people who are in different situations (pre-law, Gentiles, etc.). I have no doubt that babies who die will also receive God's perfect justice and mercy, even though I don't claim to know exactly what it will look like.

 

If you believe the Romans texts, etc. it really makes the David/Jacob verses that you argue against moot. So what's the answer? All babies go to Heaven.

 

Not necessarily. I'm not willing to declare who has a conscience and who doesn't, or what extent of a conscience is necessary to be accountable for sin. The Romans texts about conscience nowhere directly address babies, so one should be careful in extending the text to cover other situations.

 

Common sense and simple faith. You can't get much more unaccountable being an infant. Knowing good and evil, that is.

 

I'd appreciate reading your comments on a statement that an evangelist made several years ago:

"Any child who is old enough to sin willfully is old enough to believe savingly."

 

Isa 7:16 For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted.

I think this verse seems to imply a time at which one begins to be able to choose between right and wrong. Perhaps this is the kind of argument that the evangelist mentioned by ktn4eg is using.