Featured Time Travel Theology

"Faith was credited to Abraham for righteousness.” Romans 4:9 (LEB)

 

The key thought here is "that apart from us they should not be made perfect." In other words, being "made perfect" is something that occurs simultaneous "with us" rather than apart from us. They have not been, nor presently are "with us" and won't be until after the resurrection and that is when we are all together being made "perfect" in the same sense Job anticipated but did not received:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

And in a new heaven and earth when the New Jerusalem comes down upon earth, the city that Abraham looked for on this present earth and did not find.

 

The righteousness of Christ was imputed to him with regard to justification, as was the righteousness of Christ imparted to him by new birth. He was born into this world with an unregenerate spirit, dead in tresspasses and sins, loving darkness more than light, but that human spirit was regenerated by the Spirit of God when God effectually called him from his idol worship through preaching the gospel unto him (Gal. 3:6-8) just as he did us (Gal. 3:6-7). His spirit was no longer "dead" and no longer was he among those who are "children of disobedience" (Eph. 2:2-3) and no longer in love with darkness but walked with children of light.

To suppose that Abel, Job, Abraham, Caleb, etc. remained in a spiritual dead condition throughout their life time and entered into sheol as "dead" spirits, thus no different spiritual condition than the spirits of the ungodly is pure fantasy, beyond common sense. Jesus said that a man "must" be born of God and what is born of the Spirit "is spirit" and there are only two possible alternative "born of the flesh" and "born of the Spirit." Paul says that all who are "in the flesh" because they were born of the flesh "are none of his" but that is precisely the doctrinal view of all who deny new birth prior to the cross.

 

No, what you are saying is complete nonsense, void of common sense. The sin problem is not a post-cross problem. The sin problem originated with Adam (Rom. 5:12) and man is spiritually separated from God, thus spiritually "dead" in tresspasses and sins just as the Ephesians were (Eph. 2:1,5). That condition is fully described in the Old and New Testaments as one and the same condition. It is a condition of enmity against God (Psa. 14:2-3; Rom. 3:9-12; 8:7) under the condemnation of God (Jn. 3:18) and moral inclination that loves darkness more than light (Jn. 3:19-20). It is being alienated from the life of God (Eph. 4:18) in a spiritual state of darkness (Deut. 5:29; 29:4; 2 Cor. 4:6). That is the essence of the unregenerate state before, during and after the cross. The only other alternative to an unregenerate state thus described is the regenerate state which is the opposite in condition (life, light, holinesss, love for light, etc.). THERE IS NO THIRD MIDDLE STATE except in the mind of misguided people.

Now, the spirit in Abraham described after his justification by faith was no longer an unregenerate spiritual condition. He was not at enmity with God. He was not a lover of darkness and a hater of light, he was not spiritual blind and deaf and he was no longer dead in tresspasses and sins. Neither when he died, was his spirit in that condition but it was in what the scripture define as the regenerate condition.

That is your absurd interpretative theory. I say it is absurd because it assumes that spiritually dead spirits, and that is precisely what they are if they were never regenerated because it is the spirit of man that is born of the Spirit (Jn. 3:6). God cannot justify spiritual dead people and neither can they be regarded as "saved" in that spiritual condition then, or now. Yet, that is precisely what you are teaching. You are teaching the absolute nonsense that spiritually dead people went to hades but were justified and saved yet in that condition. Hebrews 12:23 was their condition at the point of physical death and they went to heaven just as David clearly states in Psalm 73. Hebrews 11 clearly states that they will not be made perfect "without us" and they have never been with us before or after Calvary, then or even now, but only will be after the resurrection when we both will be made "perfect" together at once. Abraham did not find the fulfillment of this promise "on earth" because this is a sin cursed earth and won't find that promised fulfilled until he is on a NEW EARTH whereupon the New Jerusalem comes down and abides (Rev. 21:1-24).

And when you read another person's post you need to make sure you are quoting them correctly because I never said Galatians 3:8 taught the justification of Abraham but that it declared the gospel was preached by God to Abraham. So practice what you preach.

Your position is absolute nonsense! Jesus said BEFORE the cross that man comes into this world already "condemned" (Jn. 3:18). Therefore, if Abraham did not have the righteousness of Christ imputed to him he remained condemned because Paul plainly says that he was justified "without works" (Rom. 4:1-6) and without obedience to divine ordinances (4:9-12) and without obedience to the works of the Law of Moses (Rom. 4:13-15) and without faith being defined as faithfulness (Rom. 4:16-21). Hence, your position is nothing but self-contradictions.

Exactly why they should pay no attention to you total abuse of scripture.

 

There is no TIME TRAVEL THEOLOGY! The fall and its consequences are CONSTANT, then, at the cross and now - NO CHANGE. The solution is as CONSTANT because the only possible solution then is the only possible solution now as there is no salvation, no justification, no remission of sins, no aspect of God's eternal purpose of salvation that is not IN CHRIST then or now. Abraham is explicitly said to be "in Christ" by Paul in Galatians 3:17 and there is no explaining that statement away. The context makes it clear that Abraham knew that the promised "seed" ultimately referred to one, and that is Christ, and therefore God made this covenant with Abraham "in Christ" 430 years before the Mosaic law existed and therefore the law which came later cannot annul this earlier promise because it was not based upon law but "in Christ."

To claim there is some kind of salvation outside of Christ then or now is to deny Christ altogether because if salvation in any sense from the fall can be accomplished without Christ THEN it can be accomplished without Christ NOW.

God applied ALL the benefits of the cross NOT ON THE BASIS OF TIME but on the basis of PROMISE of an eternal purpose unfettered by time and when the TIME event occurred it justified God's application before the cross. God exists outside of time and sees everything in an eternal present - I AM - thus he does not see any pre versus post cross saints with regards to the cross but sees the cross as the lamb slain "FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD" and he sees the "blood of the EVERLASTING covenant" the application of which does not depend upon events in time, but upon God's eternal purpose that encompasses time.

The very idea that God could claim as "justified" those who continue in an unregenerated condition, meaning at enmity with God, lovers of darkness and sin, children of disobedience is completely ludicrous and even more oxymoronic is the idea that such unregenerate spirits went down into sheol in safety along with other unregenerate spirits in torments is nothing but Roman Catholic purgatory revised and revisited by Baptists.

 

Actually, I said your entire theology is mad, and it is; madder than a box of frogs in fact.

You bounce up and down on Matthew 23:13 like a trampoline, saying that unregenerate people enter the kingdom of heaven, despite John 3:3-5. You claim that the Scribes and Pharisees could 'block' people entering the kingdom despite having the meaning of aphiemi explained to you more than once. Not to 'suffer' or 'allow' something doesn't mean it's not going to happen. I don't know whether J.J. Cale has been quoted on the B.B. before, but here goes:

'Mama don't allow no guitar playing round here;
Mama don't allow no guitar paying round here.
We don't care what Mama don't allow-
Gonna play my guitar any old how.
Mama don't allow no guitar playing round here.'

The Lord Jesus Christ said, "I will build My church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." How much less are the scribes and Pharisees likely to prevail! If you want to see the Jewish authorities 'blocking' someone from entering the kingdom, read John 9 down to verse 38.

There's a load more nonsense that you post and you never take instruction from anyone but keep on churning out the same old 'twaddle.' It's back on ignore for you, I'm afraid.

 

box of frogs

 

The Biblicist,

No, what you are saying is complete nonsense, void of common sense.

The only other alternative to an unregenerate state thus described is the regenerate state which is the opposite in condition (life, light, holinesss, love for light, etc.).

There IS NO THIRD MIDDLE STATE except in the mind of misguided people.


{That is your absurd interpretative theory. I say it is absurd because it assumes that spiritually dead spirits, and that is precisely what they are if they were never regenerated because it is the spirit of man that is born of the Spirit (Jn. 3:6). God cannot justify spiritual dead people and neither can they be regarded as "saved" in that spiritual condition then, or now. Yet, that is precisely what you are teaching.}

Yes indeed.....

no understanding at all...



Hebrews 12:23 was their condition at the point of physical death and they went to heaven just as David clearly states in Psalm 73. Hebrews 11 clearly states that they will not be made perfect "without us" and they have never been with us before or after Calvary, then or even now, but only will be after the resurrection when we both will be made "perfect" together at once. Abraham did not find the fulfillment of this promise "on earth" because this is a sin cursed earth and won't find that promised fulfilled until he is on a NEW EARTH whereupon the New Jerusalem comes down and abides (Rev. 21:1-24).

everyone sees it this way...