Featured How ‘Free Grace’ Theology Diminishes the Gospel

In Romans 7 "members" is used as synononymous with "this body" and "the flesh" and therefore to moritfy, which means to put to death refers to "this body" "members" "the flesh" all of which refer to the vehicle and sphere where the "law of sin" continues to reside and still has dominion or which both Paul and Peter in later writings combine the two (members plus law of sin) as "the flesh" that is in war with the "soul" of the believer. The believer can "walk AFTER the flesh" even though he is no longer "in the flesh" that is in the natural unregenerate condition as he came into this world. he still has an UNREGNERATE aspect to his Person as it was not his body that was born again.

However, in a following comment where I simply state that this aorist tense act of putting to death (mortify) the law of indwelling sin in the members is a repetitive act you say:

But you have a real problem here. If what you are saying is true then we are to mortify the "new man" as we have no remnant of an "old man" at all as he does not exist but is not merely dead with regard to his dominion over our regenerate spirit but is dead with regard to his dominion over our body. You have Christians as real schizophrenics because according to your theory it is all in their mind without any reality of an actual abiding law of sin in their members - they just THINK there is and need only to adjust their false mental state.

That is not what the scripture teaches when it says "reckon it so" or "yeild not" but "yeild". Paul is not speaking of a figment of imagination that merely needs mental adjustment. He is speaking of an actual experiential abiding principle of sin that is still alive and active within the unregenerate aspect of our human nature that has not been removed by regeneration, that is presently and experientially ALIVE and WELL and ACTIVE. It is only "dead" judicially and regeneratively but it is not dead, it is not non-existence, it is not non-active in our unregenerate body. It is something we constantly are at war with and it is constantly something we must repeatedly PUT TO DEATH as you CANNOT PUT TO DEATH SOMETHING ALREADY DEAD BUT THAT IS WHAT YOUR POSITION TEACHES. There is no spiritual union with our flesh and God and won't be until glorification. Spiritual union exists in the sphere of our human "spirit" which is a DEAD zone for the law of sin. Our soul (conscious experiential self) may become a DEAD zone for the law of sin IF we put on the new man in our soul by reckoning ourselves dead through DEPENDENCY upon the Spirit's power, but our soul becomes a LIVING ZONE for the old man = law of sin whenever we do not yeild to the Spirit consciously by faith. The soul is the battle zone between what is in spiritual union with God and what is in union with the law of sin and both are REALITIES not figments of imagination.

According to your view(Loyd-Jones/MacArthur) the old man (law of sin) is merely a figment of imagination carried over by habits rather than any actual abiding substance beyond new birth. That is really a schizophrenic doctrine and false. The truth you have refers only to what is actually in spiritual union with God but YOUR BODY IS NOT IN SPIRITUAL UNION WITH GOD but in SPIRITUAL UNION WITH SIN and will be until the day you die and the only possible victory or relief NOW is for your soul to daily PUT TO DEATH the old man (unregenerate body under dominion of the law of sin) by the power of the indwelling Spirit of God.

Your problem is that you are confusion the dominion of God over the spirit of man with dominion over the body of man. Sin no longer reigns in our control center (the spirit) but it actively reigns in our "members" and that is why it must be PUT TO DEATH repeatedly until we die. Romans 7:25 is our reality with regard to our current unglorified state and with regard to our OWN ABILITY. That is where we STAY unless we PUT TO DEATH the old man who still resides in our flesh and you can't put to death what is already dead - the old man still lives in our flesh, still active and one must be delusional to imagine otherwise. With regard to what aspect of our human nature is in spiritual union with God the reign of death is finished, it is a DEAD zone and we have complete victory. We have complete LEGAL victory as the old man is DEAD legally but we do not have completed victory with regard to the aspect of our nature that is not in spiritual union with God where the law of sin still LIVES and REIGNS and that life and reign is being manifested every day IN YOU and IN ME unless we put it to death, and again, you cannot put to death what is already dead.

 

This view is way off and fatally flawed.....I will suggest why when I get to a keyboard.

 

Gentlemen, I believe we are straining away at the semantic gnat.

We all seem to have a different rate of growth or metamorphosis from Adam to Christ and it cannot be smoothly shown on a graph chart.

We have fits and starts and many of us seem on occasion to depart from Christ.

John Bunyan was such a man who as his last days approached speaking of this very thing said - I fell, but I did not fall away - the victory - because Christ would not/could not depart from him.

IMO, We don't understand this miraculous phenomena this side of heaven.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

HankD

 

The Biblicist,

I was trying to conclude here, but this last post compels me to follow up.
You are free to hold your view, as I am free to reject it....I think what you post here is not as careful as we need to be.
God saves us body and soul/spirit....not just the spirit.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

No gnostic thought here. Glorification is the end result yes, but we are to exercise self control here. Your definition does not fit one of the two specific sections on mortification here;
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

This list includes things from both body and spirit....these listed sins that we are to mortify are not just found residing in our fleshly body.

 

pt2;

.

This is closer to the truth...I have to think it is your view of the OLD MAN/FLESH/ Members/ body.....that runs together in your mind to a point you conflate them....I will say this, it is not an easy or cut and dry thing, but what you state has John Owen off base as he sides with "US" who you feel are in error. Most people believe Owen to be the gold standard on this topic...

yes it is
.

wrong....he is gone...

wrong...not what Paul said

sorry B....the delusion seems to be your lumping all these things together but what can I say...if you want sermons on it, I could recommend some for you...

I do not fragment a person as you do. I understand what you are trying to say and your attempt to come to a solution but I do not see that happening here.

 

HankD,

Hank there is an element to this discussion that involves who is using what terms how ,when, and where. The issue is important to deal with however.
While B and I will not come to agreement here, it might be useful for people to work through on their own .....in other words....some parts are clear....
sin is an enemy.....and yet we understand that salvation is God saving His people ...FROM THEIR SINS...... not to remain living in them as if we are not in someway"saved from them".

Yes indeed.

a big topic for sure

I think we are meant to know indeed;
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

Hi Iconoclast,

Well, there is a difference between "knowing" and "understanding".

But, even at that, I suppose that instead of saying "IMO, We don't understand this miraculous phenomena this side of heaven".

I probably should have said "IMO, We don't fully understand this miraculous phenomena this side of heaven".

But then again I guess it is that way with everything our father does.

My theory is that He wants His image to be shown through us to this world of Adam and Eves so we should participate in those things which facilitate bringing forth His image in our lives.


HankD

 

Here is the problem to the rest of your post. You don't recognize a distinction in the spiritual make up of man between "spirit" and "soul". Later in this post you say,

Yes, the sins are that of the "soul" and "body" not the "spirit" as it is the spirit of man that is born again as what is "born of Spirit is spirit" (Jn. 3:6). When the "soul" (self-consciousness/will/intellect/affections) does not put to death the fleshly appetites, they dominate his soul.

The term translated "soul" is also translated "life" for a good reason. If you understand the "soul" as the seat of self-consconsiousness consisting of your intellect and affections, then whatever your set your affections on (things above or things beneath) or whatever you set your mind upon is manifested volitionally by your words and actions or your manifest LIFE. Thus as a man thinketh in his heart SO IS HE.

The battle ground is the soul. The Holy Spirit dwells in union with our regenerated spirit, which is the "inward man" created in true holiness and righteousness. This is the "new man" whereas the flesh dominated by the law of sin is the "old man" or "outer man." The soul stands between and consists of intellect and affections which are manifested by volition. If the soul does not "mortify the deeds of the body" then those deeds are volitionally manifested by words and actions. If the soul does "mortify the deeds of the body" then the Holy Spirit's will is manifested by words and actions. This is the difference between walking in the Spirit or walking after the flesh.

 

I am a dichotomies. I understand some press for more of a distinction.

 

Hi I,

The scripture does make an apparent trichotomy distinction:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This also shows that our entire being is involved in the process of sanctification.

Yes, I believe sanctification is a process. justification however was a one time act.

I went to a Bible conference here in WA where the teachers tried to show that sanctification was also a one time achievement. Not many were convinced,

What most called sanctification, they called "growth".

I do align with those who believe in a positional view, but IMO sanctification also has a human dynamic responsibility of cooperation with God and is covered by:

Philippians 2
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

For this purpose:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Can we remain as babes and join in with world in doing and rejoicing in worldly things?

I believe we can but we miss the target as "lights in the world".

There was absolutely nothing of me in my salvation (justification) but I can show my love to God in a practical way for that salvation by my cooperation in sanctification.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Body soul and spirit:
e.g. I was saved while in the service. One day while reading the book of John, I was able to stop resisting and I gave in to Christ.

I immediately felt the need to quit my addiction to alcohol, tobacco, gambling, carousing, etc...

When I received the strength for the victory and I overcame, my whole being, body soul and spirit rejoiced.
Though my body craved and my soul desired in the process, my spirit was adamant to succeed.

HankD

 

Will the, "UNREGNERATE aspect to his Person," ever be regenerated? Incorruptible?

 

The di/tri ...discussion can be interesting.
I used 1 thess5 in this very thread....
Sometimes the words are used interchangeably.
Other verses speak of different parts of the same thing, like here in Hebrews 4:12.
At this time I see the material/non material parts of a person.
Some go to James three to suggest the soul deals with the emotional aspects of the person, then the spirit deals with spiritual things.....but it is very speculative.

 

There is a lot written about the six foot, four inch tall, once living soul, Abraham Lincoln. Volumes and volumes concerning his life. He died at age fifty six.

Let's say that, the living soul, Abraham Lincoln was born and then died one minute later.
How much does one think would have been written about that, living soul, Abraham Lincoln?

Isn't the soul, the person and it's accomplishments of it's being, living? Do those accomplishments continue after death comes in the flesh?

 

Here is my view of functions:

Body - awareness of the material world (5 senses).
Soul - awareness of self (self identity).
Spirit - awareness of God (reproval/conviction of sin).

So yes soul is the "person" become aware of self.
Yes, it continues on until death. However part of its self-identity depends upon the material memory banks in the brain. My theory (can't prove it) is that God allows only sinless memories to remain after death.
After all, if He won't remember our sins should we?

The natural human spirit can only receive conviction of sin, after regeneration the fountain is broken open and communication with God flows through the human regenerated spirit.
The soul rejoices, in the promise of eternal life.

The body still has issues.

Romans 8:22-23
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

HankD

 

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Cor 2:16
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; Eph 4:23
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.Rom 12:2
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Romans 8:16 - Compare 1 Cor 2:15 with Rom 8:16

Is the above new birth or reconciliation?

What did the following make available for a man and or men? 1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) -- Keep in mind/spirit, given, is not there.

Another thought concerning Hosea 1:9,10 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them,Ye are the sons of the living God.

Are not these people, the very same people, who were told, "ye are not my people," reconciled and then told, Ye (the same people) are the sons of the living God? What reconciled them and what will quicken them as, sons of the living God and when will they be so quickened?

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:3,5 --- Both genitive - out of water and of Spirit

Is it not the whole man, who was born, that needs to be, born from above?

 

I know some will say I rabbit trailed another thread, But in reality I have not, for all is relative.

What is man? The first man Adam. Just what was he. Before he was even created was not the last Adam going to be necessary in order for the first man to inherit the kingdom of God.

But we see Jesus.

Come, just as the first man Adam, a little lower than the angels. In the likeness of sinful flesh, yet without sin.

Did the last Adam remain in the likeness of sinful flesh? Did his glorification put off his likeness in sinful flesh?

 

I'm still not quite clear if you are talking about crucifying SELF: SELFishness, SELF-centredness etc., or whether you mean oneSELF. If the latter, it's not possible because it's already happened. Let's consider Galatians 2:20.

I am crucified ['have been crucified.' Perfect Tense signifying completed action] with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life I now live in the flesh I live by [the] faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.' As one reads that, it seems at first like a mess of contradictions.

'I have been crucified with Christ.' Oh dear, he's dead. Let's leave him there.
'Nevertheless I live.' Wait a minute! First you were dead, now you're alive. OK, I'll go with that.
'Yet not I.' What!! First you were dead, then you were alive and now you say it isn't you!
'But Christ liveth in me.' Ah! Now I understand. You're dead and Christ is living instead of you.
'And the life I now live in the flesh.....' Whaaaaat!! First you were dead, then you're alive, then it isn't you, and now it is you alive again. Make your mind up, Paul. You're totally confused!

No, no. It's actually a wonderful synthesis of the Christian life. The old Martin Marprelate is dead (Colossians 3:3) and jolly good riddance to him. By my union with Christ, I died with Him and have been raised to new life with Him. He now dwells in me (John 15:23) through the Holy Spirit. I am a new creature in Christ Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:17). Yet I still have to get up in the morning, wash and shave and live my life in this fallen world, and there remains in my flesh (or my 'members') a relic of my old self that is constantly trying to assert itself, and it is that, not my new self, that I have to put to death. I have to 'walk in the Spirit' (Galatians 5:16), that is, follow the leadings and promptings of the Holy Spirit, not 'quenching' the Spirit by my worldliness, nor 'grieving' Him by my petty sins. This involves a constant struggle, 'For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit lusteth against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other; so that ye cannot do the things that ye would' (Gal. 5:17; cf. Romans 7:15ff).

Yet we live by faith in Christ, who loved us and gave Himself for us. We believe the precious promises of God, that sin shall not have dominion over us (Romans 6:14); that there is now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1), and that the God of peace shall bruise Satan under our feet shortly (Romans 16:20). We are already more than conquerors through Him who loved us. We are never called to crucify ourselves, but to live as the new creatures that we are and to strike down our sins like so many Amalekites in the power of the Spirit. And one day, when we leave this old body behind, we shall also leave the last traces of sin behind forever.

 

Good post and to top it off.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Rom 6:5,8

 

I disagree with your exposition for several contextual based reasons. First, I disagree with it on the basis of the immediate context.

What is the immediate preceding context about? Is it about erradication of indwelling sin and how the Christian life is lived? No! Is it about spiritual union with Christ? No! Those are the subjects of Galatians 5-6 not Galatians 1-4.

What is the preceding context about? It is about JUSTIFICATION by faith without works or our LEGAL POSITION before God based upon the substitutionary work of Christ and here is proof:

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Now, Paul next proceeds to answer perceived objections to this doctrine and our LEGAL POSITION in Christ:

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

The perceived objection is Christ must be the minister of sin if one is justified by faith without works since sin STILL REMAINS in the Christian life and this is the point your exposition misses altogether. In other words our legal POSITION does not match our personal CONDITION and therefore Christ must be responsible for our sinning if he says we are justified without works and yet sin continues to be manifest in our life.

Paul's short response with regard to "is therefore Christ the minister of sin?" "God forbid".

Paul's long response is:

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Paul first, shows the contradiction by a simple analogy. If I rebuild something I destroyed, then it I rather than someone else that is responsible. The law is built to sustain justice. Justice according to the Law for sinners is legally satisfied in death of the sinner. However, if the law condemns again that which was condemned and dead, then the Law becomes the "transgressor" of its own standards. So if we are found "sinners" by the law after the penalty of sin has been satisfied in Christ in our behalf, then it is the Law that is the minister of sin rather than Christ as the law transgresses itself in coming to that verdict. If the verdict of the law is that we are "dead" then we are "dead" to the law and to sin.

However, the purpose of being LEGALLY DEAD in Christ, is that we "might live unto God" with regard to our personal life, rather than live to sin. I emphasis the word "might" as this is not absolute sinless perfect living just as it is not about absolute eradication of sin. But God justifies us by faith without works that we "might" live by faith without (our) works but by his work in and through us (Philip. 2:13) by faith.

POINT ONE: the Context defines "dead" as LEGAL DEATH with regard to our POSITION in Christ due to justification by faith WITHOUT WORKS, whereas, verse 20 is speaking about the impact of Christ living in us upon the life we are now living in the flesh due to faith not due merely to union.

Now, lets look at verse 20. Paul has just proven that justification BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS satisifes the LEGAL PENALTY against sin, making us LEGALLY DEAD all "by faith" and all 'WITHOUT WORKS. He has said this is for the purpose that "we might live unto God."

The Christian life, can only be lived "by faith WITHOUT WORKS" in the very same manner as justification is obtained by faith WITHOUT WORKS.

I am crucified with Christ - perfect tense completed action that continues as a completed action. He is not referring to our spiritual union, but to our JUDICIAL UNION due to justification as just previously explained. We are not dead LITERALLY but only JUDICIALLY as the very next statement proves we are still literally very much still physically alive "nevertheless Yet I live."

Now the remainder of his statement cannot be understood apart from the qualifying ending "by faith" which in context has been contrasted to "by works." We are not actually and literally dead to sin's presence or its power as it still remains as an active living principle in our members. However, "BY FAITH" we can "count" or "reckon" ourselves according to our position in Christ and it is through faith that we access the power of the life of the Spirit of Christ (Rom. 5:2).

"Yet not I but Christ liveth in me" - or the Spirit of Christ. Christ in me is the source of power over sin. We all agree here. But where we disagree is the mechanism by which this source of power is made effectual in victory over sin. Your position is that it is absolute due to spiritual union and our victory over sin is completed as we are dead to sin - period. That is not Paul's teaching here and that is made clear by the last qualifying statement:

and the life I now live in the flesh I live by [the] faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

NOTICE HE DOES NOT SAY THIS LIFE IS FINISHED AND COMPLETE DUE TO SPIRITUAL UNION BUT DUE TO LIVING THIS LIFE "BY FAITH."

Pauls' arguement is that both justification and sanctification are BY FAITH IN CHRIST WITHOUT our WORKS. Justification obtains LEGAL DEATH as a completed action. Christ in us obtains victory over the presence and power of sin CONDITIONED BY FAITH IN CHRIST WITHOUT our WORKS - Philip. 2:13.

Paul tells the Colosians the same thing in these words, "AS YOU RECEIVED Christ, SO WALK YE IN HIM." We received him by faith without our works and we are to walk in him by faith without our works.

Now, when it comes to our relationship with indwellng sin and walking by faith, that is taken up in Galatians 5:16-25. If your interpretation of Galations 2:20 was corrrect, that we are absolutely "dead to sin" due to spiritual union then he would have never said this:

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. - Gal. 5:25

Notice, living in the Spirit is not synonmous with "walk in the Spirit." Walk in the Spirit is the product of "BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS" as one must "daily" crucify "the deeds OF THE BODY" because as he formerly explained to these Galatians:

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Notice he did not say "live in the Spirit" and ye shall not fulfillthe lust of the flesh, but one must "also" walk in the Spirit. The law of sin is active and still alive within the child of God, he is not absolutely dead to sin, mere spiritual union with Christ does make one absolutely dead to sin. Paul says that "the flesh" (the same as described in Romans 7:14-25) is very much alive and active IN THE CHILD OF GOD "so that YE cannot do the things that YE would." He is not talking to lost people but born again people who "live in the Spirit" meaning they are in spiritual union with God through the Spirit of Christ.

So, the point of division between us with regard to Galations 2:20 is:

1. The preceding context is referring to our LEGAL DEATH to sin in justification not with regard to our personal condition due to spiritual union with Christ. You are confusing our position with our condition and the preceding context is clearly speaking about being "dead" with regard to the law by faith not by spiritual union.

2. Christ's life becomes our life not by mere spiritual union but BY FAITH, thus to "live in the Spirit" is insufficient, but we must "ALSO" walk in the Spirit and it is in the "walk" by faith where sin is put to death.

3. Overall context, Paul reaffirms the principle of indwelling sin within the true child of God - Gal. 5:16-23 and that ONLY by walking in the Spirit can sin be overcome in our daily life - meaning it is still alive and active in "the flesh."

4. The "faith of Christ" in relationship to justification by faith or to the life of Christ being manifested through us is an objective genitive. Faith that has Christ as its sole object. We are justified by faith that has Christ as its sole object, and we live the Christian life by faith which has Christ as its sole object. - Therefore, as we received Christ, so we walk in him.

 

Because some on this forum, especially those who are at odds with me on this subject are not trichotomist but dichotomists then I must point out that your whole person has not been born of God. Your body has not been regenerated. Paul explicitly tells us that the principle of "corruption" remains in the natural bodies of the regenerates. That is the principle of death and the power of death is sin. Thus the principle or law of sin still abides within the person of the regenerate. This is irrefutable as scripture is clear about this point.

Therefore, with regard to our actual person, it is wrong to say we are "dead" to sin in any absolute sense except for the judicial sense.

If you are honest, there is no true Christian who is "dead" to sin as they are being tempted FROM WITHIN and FROM WITHOUT every day and more often than not sin wins and you acknowledge that in your prayer every day - "forgive me Lord where I have sinned."

To claim that only the "motions" or "habits" of sin remain, my question is what "motions" or "habits" of sin does a "new creature" have in regard to sin? There must be more to your person than mere spirit and body and I believe the Bible calls that soul. The "spirit" is regenerated but nothing else is. The body is undergoing corruption proving that the principle of death does abide within it and there is no power of death apart from sin - thus abiding sin remains and it is active and very much alive.

The soul is not as illusive and hard to understand or perceive in scripture. It is conscious you and that active conscious you manifests itself in words and actions or life. It is sometimes called "heart" when the volition is controlled by the affections and it is sometimes called the "mind" when the volition is controlled by intellectual determination. When its inward (heart, mind) and outward (life) is fully expressed through the body then we are to "love the Lord our God with all our heart (volition controlled by affections) and with all our minds (volition controlled by intellect) and strength (body used as vehicle for expression) and our soul (should be translated "life) or the outward words and actions.

The spirit and soul are both immaterial or "spirit" with regard to essence. Hence, sins of the "spirit" refer to the "soul" of a saved person. The spirit soul body provide the fullness of man:

1. Spirit - God consciousness or other world consciousness
2. Soul - Self-consciousness or inward world consciousness
3. Body - outer world consciousness

The body is the vehicle of the soul and thus gives soul expression by words and actions, thoughts and memories, etc. (Eccl. 9:5) and thus when the body is under the sod it ceases to be the vehicle of soul expression.

The new birth occurs in the "spirit" which controls the moral inclination of the soul and the moral inclination of the soul controls the the moral actions of the body (mouth, actions).

The trinity of man is somewhat like the trinity of God, one can represent the whole, each are interrelated but distinct from each other.

The regenerated spirit of man is the seat of direct intuitional knoweldge (revelation). It is the seat of spiritual fellowship with the spiritual world. It is the seat of conscience.

The soul is basically intellect, affections and will interacting and those interactions are manifested by daily life of words and actions.

The body is basically divided into flesh, bones and blood in Scripture.

Each major aspect of man is a trinity.