39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Now we have posters on this forum that want to tell us their opinions which are not formulated from the previous context of this text but from a patch work of texts and interpretations gathered from hither and thither.
Does the immediate context define the "promise" and what it was that they looked for but never received? I believe the context spells it out clearly:
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
He already was in the "land of promise" but what he looked for in that land of promise was "a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God." He never found it in the "land of promise" even though he looked for it. The only "land of promise" where "a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God" is not found in this world, but in a new world to come when it comes down from heaven UPON EARTH - a new earth.
We have not received this promise either. When will we receive this promise? Only after we have been made "perfect" in spirit, soul and body as that is the only kind of person who will obtain this promise and enter that land of promise. We are both waiting. We are waiting on earth while they are waiting in heaven but neither of us have obtained "the same promise." It is yet future.
This can't refer to going to heaven as we have not yet gone to heaven and they cannot partake of the promise without us or so says the text.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
This cannot refer to the present heaven because the writer says they will not obtain this promise "without us" and we are still on earth and so was the writer when he penned these words. They looked for a city made by God in the promised land where they wandered and did not find it and so believed it had to be in the future.
Note that even "NOW" they are (present tense verbs) desiring this better country with this city (v. 16). And where are they "NOW" when the writer penned these words? They were in the present heaven but still looking for this promise to be fulfilled. Where are we "now"? We are "now" on earth and the writer was on earth when penning these words, but they will not obtain this promise "without us" and so this must refer to the coming new heaven and earth when a city comes down from heaven upon a new earth - a new promised land.
When does that occur? Only after we have been made "perfect" spirit, soul and body as that is the only people who obtain this promise and they have not obtained this promise and we have not obtained this promise and won't obtain this promise until we obtain it together.
This text in context cannot be used to prove that they were without salvation or could not go to heaven or were without the Holy Spirit as this text has nothing to do with salvation on this earth or in the present heaven but in the future land of promise where a city can be found whose maker and builder is God - Rev. 21-22:3.
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Now we have posters on this forum that want to tell us their opinions which are not formulated from the previous context of this text but from a patch work of texts and interpretations gathered from hither and thither.
Does the immediate context define the "promise" and what it was that they looked for but never received? I believe the context spells it out clearly:
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
He already was in the "land of promise" but what he looked for in that land of promise was "a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God." He never found it in the "land of promise" even though he looked for it. The only "land of promise" where "a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God" is not found in this world, but in a new world to come when it comes down from heaven UPON EARTH - a new earth.
We have not received this promise either. When will we receive this promise? Only after we have been made "perfect" in spirit, soul and body as that is the only kind of person who will obtain this promise and enter that land of promise. We are both waiting. We are waiting on earth while they are waiting in heaven but neither of us have obtained "the same promise." It is yet future.
This can't refer to going to heaven as we have not yet gone to heaven and they cannot partake of the promise without us or so says the text.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
This cannot refer to the present heaven because the writer says they will not obtain this promise "without us" and we are still on earth and so was the writer when he penned these words. They looked for a city made by God in the promised land where they wandered and did not find it and so believed it had to be in the future.
Note that even "NOW" they are (present tense verbs) desiring this better country with this city (v. 16). And where are they "NOW" when the writer penned these words? They were in the present heaven but still looking for this promise to be fulfilled. Where are we "now"? We are "now" on earth and the writer was on earth when penning these words, but they will not obtain this promise "without us" and so this must refer to the coming new heaven and earth when a city comes down from heaven upon a new earth - a new promised land.
When does that occur? Only after we have been made "perfect" spirit, soul and body as that is the only people who obtain this promise and they have not obtained this promise and we have not obtained this promise and won't obtain this promise until we obtain it together.
This text in context cannot be used to prove that they were without salvation or could not go to heaven or were without the Holy Spirit as this text has nothing to do with salvation on this earth or in the present heaven but in the future land of promise where a city can be found whose maker and builder is God - Rev. 21-22:3.
