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James 2

22You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;


Can a incomplete Faith or a Imperfect Faith or a flawed Faith or the wrong faith save a man?



Sure you can start to eat a cake at least the cake mix while I'm mixing it for you...........but you don't get real cake until its done.

 

Can a incomplete Faith or a Imperfect Faith or a flawed Faith or the wrong faith save a man?

Pretty EASY yes or no question.

 

Lets write the scripture BACKWARDS:


James 2

22You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;



James 2 BACKWARDS

22You see that WORKS was active along with his FAITH, and WORKS was completed by his FAITH;


Which statement do you prefer? What does the 2nd statement MEAN?

 

The verse itself refutes the theory faith is always complete. It is something that becomes complete, perfect.

Even Jesus Christ mentions folks of LITTLE faith. Do you consider being of little faith a praise from Jesus?

The Devil certainly believes and has perfect faith in Jesus Christ.


James 2

19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?


Do you believe this debate would be easier or harder for you if the book of James did not exist?

 

The word "faith" and "good works", needs to be dissected and analyzed.

I think we hear different things.

Faith is trust. That's what I understand.

If we open faith and inside was LOYALTY, OBEDIANCE, LOVE. I'd give you a pass in a heart beat.

If we open faith and found none of those things or a claim that loyalty, obedience and love are RESULTS of faith, I'd give that FAIL.

I'd fail it for the same reason scripture does.

1 Corinthians 13
2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Here we have an example of GREAT FAITH, Faith so good it can remove mountains.

How many mountains has your faith moved today?

You can have complete understanding of scripture, the gospel, know all mysteries, a perfect knowledge, the greatest of Faith and it is NOTHING.

From knowledge they KNOW Jesus is lord. Perfect Faith in Christ. Know the mystery. Still they are nothing.





GOOD WORKS.

When I hear good works it is a command from God, Love God, Love neighbor.

If someone does a GOOD WORK that doesn't have God at its core, to me it does not retain the title "good work" its just evil.

It has to have agape.


If you do not love neighbor and don't love God, Your already damned. There is nothing worst that can happen to you. they can toast a guy 50 million times in the hottest hell fire. The most grueling worst of suffering is not love neighbor and not love God.

 

We keep slapping lables that don't exist. and ignoring the ones that are biblical

I showed you "COMPLETE FAITH" biblically.

Show me "historic faith", or "DEAD FAITH".

All these unbiblical terms are made up in order to negate faith on convenience of decoys.




James 2
20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

Oh that's a "false faith"

James 2
26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Oh he's talking about "dead faith"

James 2
19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

clearly this is just "Historic faith"

James 2

22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

"COMPLETE FAITH"? no such thing, My understanding is that one either has faith in Christ or doesn't.

1 Corinthians 13

2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

well that's "Cat Faith" not real faith.


James 2
24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Ahhh..... the elusive "Dog Faith"




No one pulling meaning out from scripture alone is going to conclude multiple unbiblical faiths. These things are added to defend bad doctrine.

 

I believe that motive of love to be very important. If you see the post before last the words "faith" and "good works" needs to be fleshed out.

I believe you need faith and I believe the word trust is the same as faith. When I hear faith in God I also hear trust in God , trust in Jesus.

My main focus is I believe a faith devoid of Love is not a saving faith. Some might like to think well faith is like a seed and out of it you get love.

To be clear when I throw the word love around it is AGAPE.

Now I believe God is love. Not merely in the sense that Love is an attribute but that love is God's very essence.

1 john 4
8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.


If Love was not God, scripture like 1 Corinthians 13 would be idolatry.

1If I speak in the tonguesa of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,b but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


When I read it. I also see Jesus Christ.


1If I speak in the tonguesa of men or of angels, but do not have Jesus, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have Jesus, I am nothing.


If anyone knows the difference between Jesus and Love, they still have a lot to learn about both. Because there is nothing in heaven or on earth in which the identity and very existence and identity of Love can be found save Jesus Christ.

You understand? If when one hear's "love" the first thing comes to mind is not Jesus Christ well then of course they won't count it necessary for salvation.

But if you ask anyone who knows Jesus they can't conceive Love being anything other then Jesus Christ. And there is no way to convince those folks that Love is not a essential to salvation. Or that something devoid of love is enough.

The very moment you feel compassion, mercy, kindness, or love for anyone in this world, God is talking to you, and its only here where you have a chance to catch a glimpse of him.

 

So you believe the parable of the DAMNED Samaritan rather then the GOOD Samaritan?

Was he capable of AGAPE?

4Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.




Agape withheld from any soul, There is a word for this, Evil and Satanic.

 

Agape comes from being created in the Image and LIKENESS of God.

Luke 6

32“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33“If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.

Jesus uses the word AGAPE. For even sinner love.

The only way you can sin is having agape and not exercising it.


The Pharisees love the bigot position, They believe they were the only ones capable of Good and Love. Even when it comes down to love neighbor, Jesus had to give Good Samaritan.

Jesus' defense on doing good was that if Satan is divided against himself he can't stand.

Do you think the Pharisees nodded their heads and said.....well he has a point.

Would you if a atheist or non Christian told you that?


I don't think so. Exclusivity says only we are capable of love and only we are good no one else.

 

We can find this word AGAPE in ancient non-Christian works. It is a pagan word. Who told them about it if no one was capable of it?

 

I think it would be a more obviously shocking revelation if you never had love of God and then you do, not a theory at all.

The Pharisees brought up the same charge against Jesus. That Jesus was incapable of Love of God and his good was a motivation of Satan.


When we look at requirements it states someone who doesn't love his brothers "CANNOT" love God.
So loving brothers is preliminary to loving God.

1 john 4
20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.



Muslims would say your incapable of love of God or doing good, So would Jehovah witnesses, and of course Pharisees.

All of you claiming monopoly on "TRUE LOVE". Which of you is right?


This is what lead up to Jesus giving GOOD SAMARITAN as example GOD's commandment of AGAPE your neighbor.

The bible uses same word.

Mark 12: 30 agapēseis To love agape God.

Mark 12:31 agapēseis to love agape neighbor.

With the good Samaritan, Your not told the religion of the victim, that can be anyone. And then you are told the Samaritan does the CHARITY of saving this person.

Jesus presents this as the agape of neighbor. Even ends with GO AND DO LIKEWISE.

Luke 10

36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.