Idolatry to assist in finding a new pope.

Why did you just bold the part about Mary? Are you OK with the part about St. Peter, St. Paul and all of the saints?

The word "Pavlovian" comes to my mind.

 

What a joy if he could have brought himself to quote this text of scripture "instead"...

 

Isn't Mary with Jesus? Is she allowed to communicate with Jesus?

 

I think intercession and communication are twoo different things.

 

Csmith

When you die will would you consider praying for your family still on earth, or do you plan on just sitting back and having mai tai's.

 

Well that is something....you know when I began reading this thread it reminds me of the which of Endor that Saul consulted so he could speak to Samuel (in the OT). 1 Samuel 28: 1 - 25

We serve a God of the living and Jesus is alive, but Mary, Peter and Paul are??????????
I just don't understand this about the Catholic people as to why they pray to Mary, Paul and Peter....ect, and where is it written in the bible that this is alright? Because I read where Jesus is the mediator between us and God, so it just makes perfect since as to who we pray to and who our mediator is.

Music4Him

 

m4H

20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses showed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Is Jesus referring to Abraham and Isaac? But, weren't they dead?

NO!!

All who live in Christ are alive! In fact, they are more truly alive than you or I. For they are complete and pure in Heaven.

Or do you think that perhaps, Mary, Peter, and Paul didn't make it to Heaven?

I believe that they live! I also believe that Jesus died that I might live as they do... cleansed, pure, and with all the Saints in the presence of the Almighty God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit forever.

 

You believe that Mary, Peter and Paul are more alive than you or I, and yet one can go to the cemetary and find the grave and evidence that they are dead. Their body is in the ground. Their bones by this time have decomposed and turned to dust. They are dead. Do you pray to your dead great grand parents. Why would you pray to Peter or Mary. They are not alive, just as my dead relatives are not alive. I drive by cemetaries every day. Do you know how many in the cemetaries are living? None! They are dead.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

DKH,

Yes the body is mortal, but the soul is immortal. Physical death is a passing from this life unto the next. Your soul is either eternally damned or brought to the beatific vision.

A body does not make up a person, but the soul does.

 

DHK, so you don't believe in life after death, then?

<Tangent> I can't stand Ratzinger and really hope he doesn't make the Pontificate, or if he does then he'll be a short interim successor to Wojtyla and pop his clogs shortly <Tangent off>

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

I think I like Ratzinger, largely because people like Matthew Fox hate him: http://www.matthewfox.org/sys-tmpl/door/

 

Well, now I have an image of Peter, Paul and Mary (from the Bible) singing "Puff, the Magic Dragon" in heaven. But that's only because I am in a very silly mood this morning.

Certainly those in heaven aren't just walking around on clouds and even more certainly the souls of the dead are somewhere-- either heaven or hell... just because the body is dead doen't mean the soul is.

 

So you don't believe in praying for people, then?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

But who's doing that? No one is putting anyone above (or equal to) Christ. Folks are just pointing out that we have intercessors in heaven, just as we have intercessors on earth. I guess to be consistent you should never ask any friend on earth to pray for you, and you should likewise rebuke anyone requesting you to pray for them.

 

And what about the Christians who have lived before you? Why can't they pray for people through Jesus Christ?

Yours in Christ

Matt