When Jesus cleared the Temple

I sure am glad Peter, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John didn't charge for the Word they shared. Most definetly glad Jesus paid it all...so that salvation is free. I'm sure glad they didn't decide to charge us for what they said? *(Not thats not what they are doing when that plate is passed around in church. ) I think that if the preachers sell their products (books and tapes) it should not be in the church (not unless they intend it to go into the church?) even then arn't they buying and selling in the temple? They should take it to a book store.

 

Perhaps I should clarify that statement before we go splitting hairs over something that is really irrelevant. Concerning, 'the "250" years quote,' I cannot specifically remember where I got the quote from, but I have read it many times. However the statement may have read, "There were no church buildings until about 250 A.D. which would go along with the accuracy of your research. It really doesn't matter to me. I am ready to concede that point to you.

This verifies what I said above, that church buildings came into existence around 250 A.D., which the quote probably said.

Totally inaccurate. That is like saying that that "Ichers" (sp) was a church building just waiting for its congregation (inmates). A graveyard was not built to be a church. That is just ludicrous. It was built to bury the dead, not to be a structure for the saints to meet in. Your suggetion is ludicrous. We are speaking of church structures--buildings that were built specifically for the church to meet in. That did not happen until at least 250 A.D.

That date would seem to be correct.

I have no quarrel with most of which you wrote. Like I said, the only mistake I may have made is in saying that it was 250 years "after the apostles," instead of about "250 A.D." But what difference does that make. The point remains the same. From the day of Pentecost (ca. 30 A.D.) to 250 A.D., a period of more than 200 years, the early Christians never met in buildings specifically built for Christians. In the Greek the word used for church is ekklesia. It means assembly or congregation, and always refers to the believers that gather together. It always refers to the local church, never to a church building. There is a different Greek word for church building. I believe it is kuriokon, rarely used, if at all, in the New Testament. The New Testament church was a gathering or congregation of believers that had some organizaton and purpose to it. They never had a specific building built for the sole purpose of the "church" until the middle of the third century.
DHK

 

That is an opinion. You are entitled to it. I believe that such policies are to be made by the churches in question, and no one should judge the judgement of the decision of the autonomy of the local church. Is it a right and wrong issue outside of the concerned local church? No.

Why would it be wrong? Do you have a Scriptural basis, other than the policy of a given church? Please give chapter and verse (in context). If I sell a Bible to new believer, and it causes him to grow in grace, is that wrong? I sure hope not. Good study Bibles are not cheap. God forbid if the selling of good Biblical materials should be prohibited that the believer's growth might be hindered. Sometimes the only place the average believer can only get good music and good books is from the local church he goes to, which often provides a discount at the same time. Wrong? I should say not. It is the obligation of the church to provide food for its congregation. It is the obligation of the congregation not to starve the church while it provides the congregation with the tools and food that it needs to grow.
DHK

 

DHK said:Why would it be wrong? Do you have a Scriptural basis, other than the policy of a given church? Please give chapter and verse (in context). If I sell a Bible to new believer, and it causes him to grow in grace, is that wrong?

Well, I guess thats just your point of view. No, it's not wrong, but as a rule when I see someone come to the Lord, or hear that someone did, I like to ask if they have a bible.

If they don't, I GIVE them one! I don't sell them one. But that's just ole dumb Tam, so I MUST be wrong.

And BTW, about that "context" stuff. IMOHO, I think it depends on who is saying whether it is in context or not!!!

Selah

Tam

 

Matthew 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

So the next time I go to a church who has a book and tape table set up I'm gonna try it and see where the peoples hearts are then. If I ask and they say take one I'm lible to pay anyhow because it will prove to me that their hearts are not with the all mighty dollar.

Some tape and book tables are more interested in the sales than the souls. I guess it depends where the heart is? I figure take the temptation out of the church. Now tell me agian why you think Jesus cleard the temple.....

 

jacob62 I believe its the Holy Spirit all the way.
Some men are inspired by the Spirit who write the books, but if the Holy Spirit reveals it to the man who wrote the book couldn't the Holy Spirit in His time when we are ready for the same revelation..... reveal the same thing to us without costing us the $19.95 to buy it and the 3 months to read it?

 

I gotta give you a hearty AMEN and a big for that one Jacob!!

God Bless you,

Tam

 

Not true. By the same logic, you could say this: who needs teachers? Doesn't the Bible teach us?

People who write books and sell tapes many times are running scams, but not everyone is trying to take people's money. If they are performing a ministry, they are ministers of the church, whether or not they are permanent staff. Purchasing these materials is a way of supporting their ministries.

 

You think that true, honest ministers are not showing faith in this matter?

What if their sales don't offset the cost of the materials?

What if there is something wrong in the printing?

 

I for one ame sure glad the the sermons of Jesus were recorded for me in a book. It is called the Bible. I purchased one in an audio version at a church once. I guess that condemns me. Oh well.

 

I am also glad that Godly pastors have decided to put their sermons in print, publish them, and sell them to the public. After all Paul was a tent-maker too, and I don't believe he gave away his tents for free. It is one good way for a preacher to make a little extra income for the paltry sum that many churches pay their preacher.
DHK

 

1Co 9:9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain." Is it for oxen that God is concerned?
1Co 9:10 Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop.
1Co 9:11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?
1Co 9:12 If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ.
1Co 9:13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings?
1Co 9:14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.
(ESV)

Paul CHOSE not to take money for his ministry, but he still stated that ministers had the RIGHT to earn their living from the gospel.

 

Can you prove that statement of all pastors. Your statement is an all sweeping generalization for which you have no evidence, and is impossible to prove.

It is the same type of statement as: People with name of jacob are cheats, liars, hypocrites, and the worst kind of people you will ever meet.
DHK