When Jesus cleared the Temple

The Temple is is not "just a building." As our discussion with Jacob pointed out it is the house of God. In the Old Testament it represented the very dwelling place of God. All sacrifices had to be brought there. It was the place and center of worship for all Jews. That is why you find Jews from all nations gathered at the Temple on the Day of Pentecost. They came to the Temple to worship.

There is no comparable structure in the New Testament. There is no "church building" in the New Testament. Can you point to one? Chapter and verse please. In fact, church buildings did not exist until approximately 250 A.D., well after the time of the Apostles. They are not the "house of God," per se, for God does not dwell in houses made with men's hands. The only temple of the New Testament is the believer. All worship in the New Testament is done through the believer. We don't need to go through the Levitical priest at the Temple. We ourselves are a priest and can go straight to God. There is no need for a Temple, like the Old Testament. Jesus is the one sacrifice that was sacrificed once and for all, to put away all those Old Testament sacrifices forever.

On a final note, you used a good example how the pastor of a church, and the church itself had control of its own decisions. The very nature of the topic: whether to sell or not to sell books ro cd's is up to the church in question. God has given them the authority to make such decisions. They made their own policy, as you described it. It sounds like a good one to me. And I don't believe anyone here has the right to judge it. Does it violate Scripture? No.
DHK

 

Actually we can say that wherever God's people meet, there is His Gathering Place or His Sanctuary set apart for His worship. I am involved in a Prison ministry and we meet in the Prison cafeteria for worship. It is a common cafeteria BUT when we meet for Worship it becomes the assembly of the saints worshipping God for those 2 hours we are there.

A Church Building is the Meeting place the Church has dedicated for the Worship of God and there is a reason we don't wear baseball caps in there or bring pop corn and soda in it. It is dedicated for worship and many Churches dedicate their sanctuaries when they are first built.

Very few people would place a TV set on a Church Communion Table since the Church has set that item apart for the Worship of God as we do our Meeting places or Church Sanctuary.

 

1 Timothy 5:17-18 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

It seems Jacob you don't believe these verses.
#1. Does your pastor get twice the pay of the average person in your church? That is what it means when it says that he is "worthy of of double honour." It is speaking of monetary compensation. I am sure that if churches gave their pastors twice the salary that they earned that they would start giving their books and tapes away free.

#2. The laborer is worthy of his hire. This is a Biblical principle in every field of work. What field of work do you have? You say in your profile that your occupation is professional. A professional what? (grumbler??) j/k. People can be professional at many things, good and bad. There are professional hitmen. Maybe you ought to define that.
So, you believe Paul should never have gotten any pay for making his tents? Correct? This is one of the ways he supported himself. Preachers today do the same thing by writing books. If Paul could use his talent and earn money making tents, why can't a pastor earn money publishing books. If a pastor can't earn money publishing a book, then I submit to you that you have no right to earn any income at all from whatever place of employment you have, because every Christian's first and foremost service is to God. Their "secular employment" such as tent making, writing books, or being a professional whatever," is all secondary to serving God. If it is wrong for a pastor to earn an income by writing a book, it is wrong for you to earn an income in the work that you do. You should give all that you have to the church, and live entirely by faith.
DHK

 

I was wondering,could those who claim Matt10:5-8 directly relates to them provide some script.proof.Claiming we could do these things if we had enough faith,or our hearts were not hardened?Is it Gods will that we do these things?Who required a sign?If you did recieve these powers,you would also want to make sure you stayed away from gentiles.freely you have recieved, freely give.Are you saying there is more to this than how it applies to the rest of verse 8.

 

Nowhere??

1 Timothy 5:17-18 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

 

Jim said:Be accurate when you use Scripture, for if you are not accurate, it will come back to destroy your position.

In HIS service;
Jim

It doesn't matter how "I" use scripture, because I am always wrong in the eyes of most Baptists here.

So my position is not destroyed, but made stronger by your remarks.

Peace,

Tam

 

Amen and goodnite!!



Working for Jesus,

Tam

 

Anger??
I quote a verse and you say I am angry.

Wwat anger?
Perhaps you are angry at what God says in his Word.
DHK

 

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
--God does not actually dwell in temples of any kind. So if he did dwell in the Temple of the Old Testament, it had to be symbolic.

Both in the tabernacle and in the Temple that Solomon built there was, in the holy of holies, the ark. On the ark sat two cherubim which faced each other. Between those two cherubim was a space which symbolically represented the presence of God. It was there, upon the ark, that the shekinah glory descended. It was there where Zechariah was ministering to the Lord, that God spoke to him concerning John the Baptist, and he was struck dumb. It was there that the high priest, every year went and made an atonement for the sins of the people. There he met with God, as it were, to atone for the sins of the nation.
The Temple was the only place where God could be worshipped in the Jewish religion. It is not so in Christianity. The importance of the Temple in Judaism cannot be overstated.

Acts 17:24-25 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
"Christ in you, the hope of glory"
"I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I but Christ liveth in me.
"Ye are the Temple of the Holy Ghost."
"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Where does Christ (God) dwell--in the heart of every believer.
What does God need--Acts 17:25. He has need of nothing.
Does he dwell in churches or any buildings? NO!
He dwells in the hearts of believers.
Are there "houses of God" today? NO

We must not impose our western culture into the Bible. That is a mistake too many Christians do.
Remember that up until 250 A.D. there was no church building. Think about it. The first day of the church age, 3,000 were saved. A couple of days later 4,000 were saved. The church grew fast. Some historians say that the church in Jerusalem grew up to 100-150,000. Where would they meet. There were no places that would accomodate such a number. Where did Jesus preach the sermon on the mount? The people gathered in the open, on the fields, and smaller numbers gathered in houses. There were no church buildings. Don't impose your western culture into Scripture. There is no "God's house" in the New Testament. Early Christians met in the catacombs, a graveyard for Christians. You don't call it God's house. The concept is ridiculous.

Our church was first started in a Community Hall, as many churches are. I remember every Sunday morning we would come early and clean up the beer bottles, sweep up the cigarette butts, and other garbage. "Oh, but this is the house of God!! Yeah, and beer was drunk, smoking was allowed, wild parties were held, bingos, and who knows what other ungodly activities went on in that Community Hall. But that is also where our church met. The "church" is the people, the assembly, not the place where the assembly meets. You won't find a church building in the Bible, nor the concept of a "house of God" in the Bible, except figuratively as in an illustration.

You are very confused. The Temple was His house and will be in the Millennial Kingdom, a literal place from which he will rule.
Secondly I don't believe in the common conception of an invisible universal church as you describe. The word ekklesia (church) means assembly every time it is used in Scripture as it is translated church. It ought to be translated more accurately congregation or assembly. That is what the word means. The body of Christ, or the church is not universal. You cannot have an unassembled assembly. It is a contradiction of terms. Paul wrote to local churches all the time--the church at Corinth, the church at Philippi, the church at Ephesus, etc., not one universal church.
There is no house which is his church. The concept is foreign to the Bible. There are figures of speech that are similar that Paul uses to teach other lessons, but not in the way that you are suggesting.

Christ refers to the Old Testament Temple (destroyed in 70 A.D.) as a den of thieves. The only other thing he refers to--in the future tense is in Mat.16, where he says to Peter that he will build His church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. That statement (or promise) goes directly against what you are saying.

Get rid of your western culture. Go meet in a cemetary or somewhere else if buildings bother you. The early church never met in church buildings. They didn't have anything comparable to what you think should be called "the house of God." an unbiblical concept for this day and age.
DHK

 

Is your Pastor paid? How does he make his living?
Or, are you just being a hypocrite here?
DHK

 

Show respect to God just in the place you meet?
That implication is horribly wrong?
Peter says: Be ye holy for I am holy.
Show respect wherever you go.
You speak as many act: Show up with your little saintly attitude at church, and then live like the devil the rest of the week. Is this your concept?
DHK