Featured Matthew 28:19-20 demands Landmarkism ecclesiology

Yeshua1 · Dec 2, 2016

Iconoclast said: ↑

Martin offered scripture......you do not....maybe twice in all the time you post.
You are being asked to not post unless you offer scripture to demonstrate what you believe...No one cares what you think, unless you show it scripturally....
No one......nobody.....post scripture or do not post.....
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One cannot disprove the reality of the invisible church from LMBaptist understandings though, as they would prove that their is a loal church in Bible mentioned, but they fail to see that there are other NT churches tha just them, and that together all saved comprie on true invisible and visible church!
And no matter WHAT scriptures are to be used, our Brother here is mired in his LM beliefs...

Iconoclast · Dec 2, 2016

Yeshua1 said: ↑

One cannot disprove the reality of the invisible church from LMBaptist understandings though, as they would prove that their is a loal church in Bible mentioned, but they fail to see that there are other NT churches tha just them, and that together all saved comprie on true invisible and visible church!
And no matter WHAT scriptures are to be used, our Brother here is mired in his LM beliefs...
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What you say may be true, or false......but what everyone is telling you is.......unless you can show it from scripture you saying your opinion does.not help anyone..

When you speak to someone about the gospel...do you mention scripture at all?
If you are not doing it here on BB how are you speaking scripture to unbelievers ?

Yeshua1 · Dec 3, 2016

Iconoclast said: ↑

What you say may be true, or false......but what everyone is telling you is.......unless you can show it from scripture you saying your opinion does.not help anyone..

When you speak to someone about the gospel...do you mention scripture at all?
If you are not doing it here on BB how are you speaking scripture to unbelievers ?
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I quote and use the scriptures all the time when discussng salvation....

The Biblicist · Dec 3, 2016

Yeshua1 said: ↑

I quote and use the scriptures all the time when discussng salvation....
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No, most of the time there are absolutely no scriptures used in your posts, just your assertions. When it comes to proving my use of scripture is wrong, you never do that, you simply ignore the evidences placed before you that prove you and Martin's use of scripture is incorrect. Your only response has been simply to assert your theory without a shed of evidence. Just go back and look at your posts.

Earth Wind and Fire · Dec 3, 2016

Yeshua1 said: ↑

I quote and use the scriptures all the time when discussng salvation....
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Yeshua, BTW doesn't your software have spellchecker on it? I'm a horrendous speller so I use mine & maybe you should try doing that...if for nothing more than to help the reader understand your posts.

The Biblicist · Dec 4, 2016

The Biblicist said: ↑

1. The primary verb as an aorist tense imperative mode verb and the meaning of "disciple" with its grammatical relationship with the three participles (aorist, present tense, present tense).

The noun form of the verb matheteusato is used by Matthew 68 times translated "disciples" and 4 times "disciple." It is found here in the imperative move as a command to "make disciples." Therefore, this is not suggestion or an option but a command. It is not the same Greek term translated "teach" in verse 20 as that is the Greek form didaskontes.

The root idea behind "matheteuo is a "pupil, learner, follower" and this is confirmed by the use of didsaskontes in verse 20 as they are to be instructed how to observe all things Christ has commanded - thus making them followers, pupils or disciples of Christ.

A "pupil" or "learner" or "disciple" is someone who adopts, follows or imitates a master teacher. The command to to teach them to "obserse all things I have commanded" demands this is the idea. The teachings of Christ is the mold and they are to be trained to reflect that mold. Therefore, this is not a command to produce inovators of new systems of theology, or to make alterations or come up with a "better idea" but it is a command to to observe THE SAME pattern of doctrine and practice.

The Aorist tense "have" demands a system of faith and practice has already been put in place and followed by those Christ addresses identified by the pronoun "ye." Hence, the teaching required is not about some future new system of theology but a past completed action theology. Jude is referring to this point of deliver of this faith and practice when he says, "once delivered" (Aorist tense completed action). Therefore the system of faith and practice must be found prior to Matthew 28:19-20 between Matthew 3 (when his public ministry began) and Matthew 28:19 (as harmonized in parallel gospel accounts).

Applying this to the immedate context, it means going with the SAME gospel (Mk. 16:15) as those who preach "another gospel" are accursed (Gal. 1:8-9). His gospel is spelled out in John 3:15-20; 5:24; etc.

It means administering the SAME baptism (Jn. 4:1-2) as those who reject this baptism are rejecting the counsel of God (Lk. 7:29-30) and this is the ONE and ONLY baptism promised to continue unto the end of the age (v. 19).

Therefore, this imperative verb in its context is the command to REPRODUCE LIKE FAITH AND ORDER. This is precisely how it is applied in the book of Acts (Acts 2:40-41) and that is precisely what kind of Christians and churches are found in the book of Acts and episltes and Revelation. This is not an option but a command "whatsoever I have commanded you."
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The Biblicist said: ↑

2. The contextual differences between "ye" "them" and "all nations"

This context provides only three possible options as to the identity of those being authorized by Christ to carry out this command we call a commission.

1. "all nations"
2. "ye"
3. "them"

Those authorized to administer this commission cannot be "all nations" as they are the objects of the commission rather than the actors of it.

Those authorized to administer this commission cannot be "them" as they are the objects for baptism and instruction. These are those who received the gospel from among "all nations" but have not yet been baptized or instructed.

This is significant for several reasons. First, it leaves only "ye" and demands that those authorized are not among the "them" or those without baptism or instruction. The phrase "whatosver I HAVE commanded you" demands they have already been through this process prior to being authorized to carry out this commission. So these are not unbaptized or uninstructed administrators as the blind leading the blind would cause all to fall into the ditch. One cannot teach what they have not been taught.

The immediate antecedent for "ye" in this context is found in verses 16-17. At first appearance it would seem it refers only to "the eleven disciples." However, if one begins at verse 10 this command is given to more than the eleven disciples, but the women were told of this meeting place and they were instructed to tell "his disciples" (vv. 7-8) and "my brethren" (v. 10). Therefore, those as identified as "women" and "his disciples" and "my brethren" were all notified of this precise meeting place in Galilee. These are the same three categories used to describe the 120 in Acts 1:15-17.

Moreover, verse 17 says "some doubted" however, prior from leaving Jerusalem Christ appeared to all of the eleven apostles including the last doubting one Thomas. While on the way to this mountain in Galilee Christ appeared to Peter and those who went fishing with him confirming his love for them in spite of their failures. Finally, Matthew chooses to call them "disciples" rather than "apostles" in Matthew 28:16 as the commission was to reproduce disciples.

This context that the very same ones told of this meeting place in Matthew 28:7-10 (women, disciples, brethren) are the very same ones described in Acts 1:15-17 or the 120 including their ordained leadership (the eleven) and it some of these 100 besides the women and the eleven that doubted. Finally, Acts 1:21-22 demands that more had to be present as the qualification to fill the vacated office of Judas was that such a person IN ADDITION TO the 12 apostles had to be companying with them from the time of the baptism of John until his resurrection. Therefore, even though most of the texts where only the twelve are directly mention between Matthew 5-28:17 there had to be other disciples present which sets precedent that more were present than the eleven on this mount. In addition when Christ demanded "his apostles" to wait in Jerusalem for the baptism in the Spirit (Acts 1:2-5) it is the entire 120 who are obeying this command (Acts 1:15-17, 2:1) demonstrating there were more than just the apostles being addressed even though the text only mentions the apostles. This 120 is what the 3000 on Pentecost is "added unto" (Acts 2:40) and they are called "the church" (Acts 2:46). Finally, Acts 1:21-22 demonstrates there was a consistent assemblying with Christ during his whole public ministry and must have been so or else they could not have obeyed Matthew 28:20 which demands assembling for instruction in the past as the aorist tense "have" commanded demands.

However, regardless, those being authorized are not "all the nations" or unbaptized, uninstructed believers. Those authorized are previously baptized believers which assembled consistently with Christ under his instruction with other disciples as Acts 1:21-22 demands and that is the church addressed in Matthew 18:17 and is being addressed in Matthew 28:16-17 and which continued to assemble in Acts 1 and 2:1. He is addresseding a plural body of baptized believing disciples who "have" been habitually assembling together under his instruction (Acts 1:21-22) or what he calls "my church" (Acts 2:1,40,46).

This commission is not given to unbaptized and uninstructed Christians and therefore it is not being given to Christendom. It is given only to baptized believers in an observing assembled capacity.
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