Sunday Sermons

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Acts 20
7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.
8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered together.
9 And there was a young man named Eutychus sitting on the window sill, sinking into a deep sleep; and as Paul kept on talking, he was overcome by sleep and fell down from the third floor and was picked up dead.
10 But Paul went down and fell upon him, and after embracing him, he said, "" Do not be troubled, for his life is in him.''
11 When he had gone back up and had broken the bread and eaten, he talked with them a long while until daybreak, and then left.

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Is Luke ignoring the Bible reckoning of time because he says “daybreak”??

#1. Luke does not say “the next day begins at daybreak”. Nor did Romans use such a system.
#2. Luke does not give the start time of this meeting. We do not know if it was prior to Sunset or after sunset. Prior to Sunset would mean that the “next day” was week-day-two and the bulk of the meeting was actually taking place on the evening of week-day-two.

What a nice way to gloss over points 1 and 2 aobve!

Here they are again as they debunk your speculation about what Luke is doing "again".

#1. Luke does not say “the next day begins at daybreak”. Nor did Romans use such a system.

#2. Luke does not give the start time of this meeting. We do not know if it was prior to Sunset or after sunset. Prior to Sunset would mean that the “next day” was week-day-two and the bulk of the meeting was actually taking place on the evening of week-day-two.


I guess you have to read the points to respond.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Luke 22
66 At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them.
67"If you are the Christ,[a]" they said, "tell us."

We know that Luke used the term “Daybreak” to mean “dawn” or morning – keeping in harmony with Jewish reckoning (neither Jews nor Romans started the day at dawn). He is perfectly consistent in speak of “Dawn” as daybreak in Luke 22 and observing that on Friday evening the Sabbath “was about to being”.


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Luke 23
54It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

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Surely you don't think SAbbath begins at "daybreak on Saturday morning"??!!!

 

"Paul and his friends could not, as good Jews, start out on a journey on the Sabbath; they did so as soon after it as was possible, v.11, at dawn on the 'first day' - the Sabbath having ended at sunset."

 

Galatians 4:9-10
...."how is it that (Bob Ryan and Wopik) are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? (Bob Ryan and Wopik) are observing special days (sabbaths) and months, and seasons, and years."

 

Hello, prophecynut --

First of all, in Galatians 4, Paul is speaking to pagan Gentile converts who never knew the true God (vs 8).

These Galatians were the same people whom Paul and Barnabas encountered in the Galatian cities of Lystra and Derby. These Galatian PAGANS thought Paul and Barnabas were their gods Mercury and Jupiter (Acts 14:6-16).

In Galatians 4:8, Paul makes reference to this by telling them "you did service unto them which by nature are NO gods." Mercury and Jupiter are NO gods.


Paul -- who calls the Commandments and Law of God holy, just and good (Romans 7:12, 25) -- would never refer to them as "weak and miserable principles" -- as you state.

Referring to the LORD's holidays (Lev. 23) and laws as weak and miserable is an insult to God who created them for our good.

And you don't observe any special religious days?

Perhaps you forgot about Sunday, Good Friday, Easter, Christmas, Halloween, etc.......

 

http://www.gospelway.com/topics/bible/christian_sabbath.htmIt

 

http://www.biblestudylessons.com/cgi-bin/gospel_way/lords_supper_day.phpB.

And the Rapture will be on the first day of the week.

 

"Paul and his friends could not, as good Jews, start out on a journey on the Sabbath; they did so as soon after it as was possible, v.11, at dawn on the 'first day' - the Sabbath having ended at sunset." </font>[/QUOTE]That is entirely possible (if the meeting began after sunset and so it was week-day-1 just after sunset which is Saturday night).

But if the meeting started just before sunset on week-day-one (That would be Sunday afternoon) then the main portion was on Sunday evening
(Weekday-two in the evening) and they would be leaving early on Monday morning.

Either way it is a problem because those who want to claim that "meeting" means Sabbath - will have a Saturday night meeting in the first scenario followed by travel all day on Sunday.

In the second scenario they will have a Sunday afternoon meeting followed by ALL evening meeting on weekday-2 (sunday evening) which means that the famous "meeting means holy" rule would make Monday a holy day by "man's tradition".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Man's tradition prompts us to celeberate the resurrection of Christ on a yearly basis on resurrection Sunday. This is certainly a wonderful tradition but is hardly a "weekly" event.

The only "weekly" cycle that mankind has - is the one that Christ the Creator gave us in Genesis 1-2:3. That is the ONLY "memorial" given to mankind on a weekly cycle.

The only reason that mankind would want to break that cycle and exchange Christ's own Holy Day for one of man's-own-making is that we have a problem with Christ the Creator's day and with His Law written on the heart. That problem is simply an error introduced into Christianity long after the Apostles died.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Hello, BobRyan

http://www.vision.org/trdl/2001/trdl010420.html

 

Sunday

Christmas

Easter are all errors that crept into the Church and polluted it.


http://www2.andrews.edu/~samuele/books/sabbath_to_sunday/

 

SUNDAY - Originated with the apostles and prophets who built the Church foundation that you continue to rebel against.

CHRISTMAS, EASTER - Started by the apostate Roman Catholic Church.

The Sabbath was given to God's chosen people, the Israelites. Here's the proof:

Exodus 31:12-17 - Say to the Israelites "you must observe my Sabbatts."

Lev. 26:2 - "Observe my Sabbaths."

Isa. 56:4 - "eunuchs who keep my Sabbath."

Jer. 17:19-27 - "the people though which the Kings of Judah go in and out."

Ezk. 20:12,20 - "I gave them my Sabbaths." "Keep my Sabbaths holy."


Give me Scriptural poof that observance of the Sabbath was given to the Church.

 

The purpose behind most laws is clear, and that which lies behind the Old Testament commands about the Sabbath is evident.

Once this purpose is understood, it becomes obvious why no New Testament restatement of the basic command was necessary, or even likely.

The New Testament discussions and examples concern how to keep the Sabbath (in spirit rather than in a rigid, legalistic manner), not whether to keep it.


http://intercontinentalcog.org/ICGCC/Lesson_Seven.shtml


The most important New Testament statement on the Sabbath was spoken by Jesus Christ as quoted in Mark 2:27-28.


Jesus not only affirms the Sabbath command, He also instructs us about its purpose. "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." Thus, it is apparent that the Sabbath was made for men, for his spiritual and physical benefit.

 

Annual Holy Days that were ordered by God, kept by the ancient Israelites and continued by the early New Testament Christians.

These seven annual "appointed feasts" pictures God's plan of salvation for man.


http://www.intercontinentalcog.org/ICGCC/Lesson_Ten.shtml

 

wopic

I checked out the sites, all the references they give apply to the Israelites and not the Church.

The Church began in Acts 2 and ends in Rev.4:1; you must locate Scripture within these parameters. There are a few prophetic references to the Church in the OT but no commands to observed the Sabbath.

After checking again and the sites do reference Scriptures within the parameters, but no not give eplicit instructions or commands to the Church for observing the Sabbath.

[ June 17, 2005, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: prophecynut ]

 

These Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah continued to keep the Sabbath as a perpetual covenant - throughout their generations, as the LORD commanded.


The Sabbath has always been open to Gentiles (Isa 56: 1-8 / Acts 13: 42-44).


Paul bypassed a Sunday inorder to preach and meet with Gentiles a whole week later - on the following Sabbath (Acts 13: 42-44) -- to preach the grace of God (vs 43).

 

Wopik, you have not answered my request - where does Paul tell us to keep or observe the Sabbath?

There are Jews who have accepted Jesus who commemorate the Sabbath but not as a binding covenant like you think. Those who keep or observe it as a perpetual covenant, like some in the SDA church, have not accepted Christ as Savior or are born again.

Isa. 56 is fulfilled during the Millennium and is not applicable to Jews or Gentiles today. A brief commentary follows:


v.1 - "My righteouness will soon be revealed" is the coming of Christ to set up his kingdom on earth.

v.4-6 - Foreigners or Gentiles who keep the Sabbath during the Millennium will be honored in his temple. The Sabbath does not apply to Gentiles today or in Isaiah's time for they are excluded under the Mosaic Law (Deu. 23:1).

v.7 - "my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations" - This can only happen during the Millennium. The "house of prayer" is the Millennial Temple (Eze.40-48).

v.8 - He who gathers the exiles of Israel: " I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered." Those already gathered are the Jews presently in Israel (Eze. 38:8,27), who survive the Tribulation. At the Second Coming "still other" Jews will be gathered for the Millennium (Eze. 28:25-26), and are the elect of Mt. 24:31.

Although Paul was a Jew he was not bound by the OT law and religious practices. For the sake of winning Jews to Christ he conformed to the Jewish law and interacted with them in the synagogues and on the Sabbath. Paul became "all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some (1 Cor. 9:20,22).

I'm not going to ask you again, where is the proof that the Church must adhere to the Sabbath?

Gentiles are excluded from the Mosaic Law, why do comply with the Sabbath and expect others to?

 

Acts 13-42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.(Sat-7th day)

Notice that they asked to be preached to the next sabbath??

Acts 18-4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.------

Notice he said Jews AND Greeks, not just Jews!

Acts 13- 14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

They did that because they were observing the sabbath!!

Acts 22-19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee

The Christians were in the synagogue on the Sabbath day. Why were they there? They were observing the sabbath day!!!

tam

 

The early church was predominately Jewish, they were accustom to meeting in synagogues. The leaders were interested in Paul's message and desired to hear more. Paul having success the first time was glad to return a second time hoping more Jews would receive Christ.

Paul's regular practice was to begin his preaching in the syngogue where Jews congregated. His reason for doing so was grounded in his understanding of God's redemptive plan for the Jew first and then the Gentile (v.64; Ro 1:16; 2:9-10). He was not neglecting his Gentile mission, for the Gentiles who were also interested in his message went to the Synagogues. Moreover, the synagogue provided a ready made preaching situation with a building, regularly scheduled meetings and a people who know the OT Scriptures. It was customary to invite visitors, and especially visiting rabbis (such as Paul), to address the gathering.

Much like today when evangelist preach the Word to those interested.

Assuming your a Gentile you're excluded from the Mosiac Law, and as a Christian you should not be involved legalistic rituals.

I don't want Scriptures that remotely imply observance of the Sabbath, rather proof that God has commanded the Church to observe it. OK?

 

prophecynut,

The Twelve Apostles and Paul were Commandment keepers, meaning they kept all TEN of the TEN Commandments---including the Fourth.

Jesus told the young Lawyer (Matt. 19:17-19) to keep the Commandments, and Jesus recited a few of them.

Paul said nothing was as important as keeping the Commandments of God (1 Cor. 7:19). These were the TEN Commandments (Rom 7:7).


1 John 3:4 - sin is transgressing the Law. James says what Law:

James 2: 10-12 ---- keep all the TEN Commandments.

[ June 18, 2005, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: wopik ]