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Featured The genuine gospel is neither Arminian nor Calvinist

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AndThisGospel, Jan 9, 2017.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Sure it is....
     
    #61 Iconoclast, Jan 11, 2017
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He did with Israel under the Old Covenant, and His saints under the New One!
     
    #62 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2017
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It is not the Messageof the Gospel, but it does explain it...
    Calvinism still has flaws and problems in it,but less so than oter sysems, none of them are the Bible fully though!
     
    #63 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2017
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Why not in your understanding, for If Jesus died to provide for all, why do some reject Him then?
     
    #64 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2017
  5. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Yes, if you are a Calvinist, then "yes" God does indeed practice favoritism....Therefore Calvinism makes God a sinner unintentionally.

    However, if one doesn't buy into Calvinism then He clearly does not show favoritism.

    John 3:16 "God so loved the world (the fallen, human race) that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."

    Note that "whoever believes" in Christ, God will accept them "in His Son". There's no limited atonement here. Calvin is wrong!
     
    #65 AndThisGospel, Jan 12, 2017
  6. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Jesus didn't merely provide (as in provisional)...He actually saved the human race in Himself. But Christ will not force you to accept His completed work finalized at the cross. It's your choice....That's free-will. Faith is a response to Christ....
     
    #66 AndThisGospel, Jan 12, 2017
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you quoting karl Barth here? The bible does not teach all were in the Cross of Christ, as God knows only thosewhom he saved are in Him!
     
    #67 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2017
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Those whom will be able to believe are thoe whom God has enabled to do just that!
     
    #68 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2017
  9. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Look at Rom 6:6

    "For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin"

    "you also died to the law through the body of Christ" Rom 7:4

    "Our old self" is our life from Adam. Your Adamic life died "in Christ".

    How many died? Was it "all men" or just "some men" - as in Calvin's limited atonement?

    2 Cor 5:14 "One died for all, and therefore all died"
     
    #69 AndThisGospel, Jan 12, 2017
  10. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    The text doesn't say that....

    John 1:9 "There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man."

    Rom 12:3 "God has allotted to each a measure of faith."
     
    #70 AndThisGospel, Jan 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus death only is effectual to tose who believe on Him for salvation, and those are the elect of God.
     
    #71 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2017
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    any also rejected tha ligh, as ty choose to stay in teir sin state and darkness, and Romans refers to he saved, not all people!
     
    #72 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2017
  13. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    No Sir, that's not true. I gave you clear, specific Pauline passages. Why do you persist in ignoring them?
     
    #73 AndThisGospel, Jan 12, 2017
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Why do you say it is not the message of the gospel? Give a detailed answer
    What does Calvinism describe?
     
    #74 Iconoclast, Jan 12, 2017
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, I am saying that it explains the message of the Gospel, bu it is not the Gospel, as it is not he ONLY way that can be used to explan it, as arminanan theology, thouigh worse, is still viable!
    We are saved by/thru te Cross, not by Calvinism!
     
    #75 Yeshua1, Jan 13, 2017
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul stated hat the elect of God are those saved by God.. He did not hold to a Universal atonement view on the Cross of Christ.
     
    #76 Yeshua1, Jan 13, 2017
  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    "The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."

    "I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus. Such a gospel I abhor."

    Charles Spurgeon
     
    #77 TCassidy, Jan 13, 2017
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It is the best way to understand te message of the Cross, but it is not the only way, ele we wouldsay only Calvinists have Christ and are saved!
    I do accept what Spurgeon said, but don't think it mean Calvinism or any other yjeology fully explans and gets th Bible. We he no inspired teologians since John passed away.
     
    #78 Yeshua1, Jan 13, 2017
  19. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Paul taught that God has saved "all men" in Christ Jesus. Anyone who is lost has persistently rebelled against the Spirit of grace. He can only blame himself....
     
    #79 AndThisGospel, Jan 13, 2017
  20. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    "...through one act of righteousness [Christ's] there resulted justification of life to all men."

    When the Son of Man died upon the cross our fallen life from Adam died also. See Rom 6:6/7:4. Christ's death was a corporate death, therefore "One died for all, therefore all died." 2 Cor 5:14

    Christ has legally justified the entire fallen human race in Himself. To reject Christ is to remain under "the cruse of the law" - which is the 2nd death. See Gal 3:10/Rev 20:14
     
    #80 AndThisGospel, Jan 13, 2017
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