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Featured Calvin on "total depravity"

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AndThisGospel, Jan 27, 2017.

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  1. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Why are you telling an untruth? Read it again.
     
    #81 AndThisGospel, Jan 31, 2017
  2. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    But Jesus is in heaven and you aren't....You are "holy and blameless" in Him, but of yourself you are a wretched sinner.
     
    #82 AndThisGospel, Jan 31, 2017
  3. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    One problem: Adam didn't need saving before he sinned, he needed saving after he sinned. Adam's humanity after the fall was indwelt by "sin" singular, i.e., self-love, what some term "the sin nature"
     
    #83 AndThisGospel, Jan 31, 2017
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, more in image of God due to us having emotions, thought, ad can hav a relationship with Him!
     
    #84 Yeshua1, Jan 31, 2017
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I am a new creation in Christ, tholdhs passed wat, correct?
     
    #85 Yeshua1, Jan 31, 2017
  6. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    It has to be destroyed, Because the image of God is 100% GOOD.

    If there is NO GOOD present then neither is there any image of God present.


    On paper, as an expression of humility. To say we are no good and only God is Good is fine.


    But applied absolutely, as an expression of FALSE HUMILITY. It is contradictory even evil.


    Tell me if you like this story. One day I had enough, I was unhappy sick with my self, I'm trash, I'm useless. I want to die, im worthless, God has a right to hate me. God would be doing the right thing throwing me away. everything I do is stupid. I cry, and I cry. there is absolutely nothing I CAN DO to fix me. There is no hope in me. There is not a chance of salvation.

    And yet God picked me up and more importantly for NO REASON. And all the things I did, I wasn't doing God any favors. God did it all. I don't have to worry about anyone getting saved, God has the 100% whole thing covered.

    Its not about me opening up someone's else's eyes when I feel like it, its when God feels like it.

    Every single thing happens for a reason. Even when I struggle in the dark all those bad things that happened to me all of it God was behind it, even making all the evil things work towards righteousness.

    And you can look back and say well if this never happened here I would have never been born there, I would have never learned this or that.

    Good story right?
     
    #86 utilyan, Jan 31, 2017
  7. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Okay, let's test your theory:

    2 Cor 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature (other versions: "new creation"): old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

    Instead of applying this "new creature/creation" to our glorified corporate life "in Christ" you want to apply this "new creation" to you, personally.

    Okay, let's see if Paul was speaking of the believer: "Have all things" become new in your humanity?

    1. Are you now immortal?
    2. Are you without sin, i.e.,holy and blameless?
    3. Do you no longer have your sinful nature?
    If you answered "no" to any of these things then "all things" have not become new in you and therefore 2 Cor 5:17 is is not speaking of you the individual, but rather your glorified life residing "in Christ Jesus" in the heavenly places.
     
    #87 AndThisGospel, Jan 31, 2017
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Image of God are those attributes that we share with Him, such as mind, thoughts, alive, enotions, etc NOT his divine attributes!
     
    #88 Yeshua1, Jan 31, 2017
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Right now God sees me as the completed image in Christ, has already seen me being glorified and risen, butI have yet to experience all of that!
     
    #89 Yeshua1, Jan 31, 2017
  10. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    You don't read whole posts, that's lazy. Its no wonder you skipped half the scriptures.

    The Image of GOD is 100% GOOD. Not divine attributes!?


    1 Corinthians 11

    7For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.


    We already have an accuser, SATAN. Why is it every post I'm having to defend mankind? I'm here appealing to your mercy. Pointing to God's command love your neighbor.

    Seriously what kind of a soul squirms and is in a hurry to damn others, everyone when possible.

    What kind of a soul is disgusted when Jesus said "forgive them they know not what they do" ?

    I have not found one Calvinist that calls that noble!

    You can be the first one right now!

    What kind of soul gets sick to their stomach because STEPHEN says "lord don't hold their sins against them"?

    I have not found one Calvinist that says that's a good example.


    What kind of soul can't acknowledge that PAUL was willing to be damned and separated from Jesus if it could mean saving the fallen?

    I have not found one Calvinist that says what Paul said was right, what Stephen said was right, what Jesus said was right.

    Forgive them, they know not what they do, What Jesus said was right!

    You can be the first, Tell me they are right.
     
    #90 utilyan, Jan 31, 2017
  11. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Sounds very legalistic....
     
    #91 AndThisGospel, Jan 31, 2017
  12. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    LOL, where does Yeshua1 preach the law and sanctificatuon by works?
     
    #92 MennoSota, Jan 31, 2017
  13. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    You don't have just to preach the law to be a legalistic. If you think there's anything, in your experience, that can supplement Christ's completed work you are technically legalistic.
     
    #93 AndThisGospel, Feb 1, 2017
  14. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Okay, and again, where's Christ? In heaven. He is your High Priest and He represents your new creation, in Himself, before the Father & His law. "In Him you are complete". But that's your new creation which is in Christ and in heaven. You, again, are of yourself a sinner....

    Your fallen, corporate humanity was united to Christ at the incarnation. Thus His life of obedience was yours. And His death was your death. And His resurrection was your resurrection. That has already happened - it is not a future event.
     
    #94 AndThisGospel, Feb 1, 2017
  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Pharisees = Calvinists

    Same prayers too:

    Thank God I'm not like that unelected fellah next to me.
     
    #95 utilyan, Feb 1, 2017
  16. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Excellent observation!
     
    #96 AndThisGospel, Feb 1, 2017
  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The Pharisee is praying, "Thank you God that I had the wisdom to decide for You. Thank you, God that my works are saving me." The tax-collector had nothing to offer God. He was shut up to Free Grace.
     
    #97 Martin Marprelate, Feb 1, 2017
  18. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Not wisdom, choice....

    The tax collector's prayer: "Thank you God that I am not a robot and in your Sovereignty you gave a free-will and the ability to accept or reject your finished work of redemption"
     
    #98 AndThisGospel, Feb 1, 2017
  19. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the men of old gained approval.

    verse 6: "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."
     
    #99 AndThisGospel, Feb 1, 2017
  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Yes to all three.
    1. 'These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.......' (1 John 5:13). 'We know that we have passed from death to life because we love the brethren' (1 John 3:14).

    2. 'Then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more' (Hebrews 10:17).
    'He has not observed iniquity in Jacob, nor has He seen wickedness in Israel' (Numbers 23:21).

    3. 'How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?..........But now, having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness........' (Romans 6:2, 22).
    'Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new' (2 Corinthians 5:17).
     
    #100 Martin Marprelate, Feb 1, 2017
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