Do Catholic Priests ever say read your Bible?

I am sorry that you have had such a bad experience with your church. Don't judge all IFB churches by the one that you are in. There are a wide variety of them. Some follow a man more than they follow Christ. It becomes more like a dictatorship, rather than congregational government. Not all churches are like that.

Most IFB churches will point out error, even error of other false religions or cults. It is a Biblical mandate for them to do so. Wrong doctrine, even heresy, such as purgatory, the sacrifice of the mass, praying to the dead, indulgences, confession to a priest, all the doctrines associated with Mariolatry, such as the assumption of Mary, etc. These are all heretical man-made doctrines totally unproveable by the Bible. It is impossible for one to know what the Bible teaches, and know what the Caholic Church teaches and be saved at the same time.
The simple reason is this. What does it mean to be born again? Jesus said "You must be born again."
In fact he said, "Except a man be born again he cannot enter the kingdom of God." This is one of the most important doctrines of the Bible, dealing directly with one's salvation.
The evangelical will correctly interpret this as trusting Christ as one Saviour (John 1:12,13, 1Pet.1:24). But the Catholics are adamnant in their belief that to be born again means to be baptized. The two beliefs are opposed to each other. The Bible teaches that it is impossible to get to heaven through baptism. For by grace are you saved through faith, not baptism. Thus a Catholic who believes that baptism saves him cannot be saved. A Catholic who believes that to be born again is to be baptized cannot be saved. Yet, that is Catholic theology. How can a Catholic be saved believing this? They can't.

--I wouldn't go so far as to say that; and I do recognize that there are some historical innacuracies in the Trail of Blood. What I do believe is that there are churches in every age from the Apostles onward that believe as Baptists today believe, though not called Baptist. God has preserved in every age a people for his own. He has never left himself without a witness. And that witness is not the murderous Catholic Church which has been constantly persecuting evangelical Christians.

Perhaps an extreme statement the way it is stated. Basically there are two Bibles. Ones that are translated from the Critical Text, and ones that are translated from the Textus Receptus or Recieved Text. No translation (including the KJV0 is inspired and infallible). God has preserved his Word in the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. I personally believe that he has preserved His Word in the Received Text that underlies the KJV (and NKJV). It is preserved in the Greek, not the English, so that other translations may be made as well. No translation can be more accurate than the language that it was taken from.

So, who put that idea in your head? When Jesus spoke consistently all through the chapter in metaphors, why would it make sense for him to suddenly change? That is not good hermeneutics as I have pointed out to you, and smacks of predudicial Roman Catholicism. You seem to have been listening to something or someone that has been influencing you that way. There is no reason to take that passage that way.

Check Acts 17:11. Have you just been sitting in a pew absorbing everything your pastor is teaching you like a mindless sponge. Don't you study the Word for yourself, "to see whether these things are so," as the Bereans did. Paul commanded Timothy, as he does us:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

If your pastor or church has taught you other errors, than you should have caught them already, by your own study of the Word.

Be objective then. Find the above Catholic doctrines that I mentioned to you in the Bible. Prove Catholicism from the Bible. I have an outstanding challenge to my Catholic parents.
Show me from the Bible that Catholicism is Biblical, and I will be a Catholic, but if I can show you what I believe is from the Bible, will you be saved and come to our church.
They have never taken up that challenge yet.
The reason--Catholicism, with all its man-made doctrines cannot be demonstrated from the Bible. It is a man-made religion. I know. I was there for 20 years, and never heard the gospel preached once.

That of course is more personal than anything else. Getting alone with God, spending time in His Word, and in prayer are key to your relationship with Christ. Make sure that you are born again, saved by grace through faith, and not by works (Eph.2:8,9). The Catholic Church will teach you the opposite.
Then make sure that you are in a good Bible believing church, not necessarily a KJVO church, but rather an IFB church that is more moderate toward the KJV. A church that faithfully preaches the Word of God, not one that is based on a man, but rather the Word of God, and centered and focused on Christ. Go to a friendly church where you can be involved.

Not every church is like that. That is what I am trying to say. For example in our church, I preach what is called expository preaching. In the morning I have been going through 2Corinthians, and in the evening 1Peter. I don't "situation preach." In other words, verse by verse, or passage by passage, I preach whatever is there. That way the sheep are being fed. One Sunday the text may fall on a passage where the text speaks about the woman's role in the church, and so I must speak on it even if I want to stay away from it. Check 1Pet.3. The following passage speaks about the husbands duty to his wife. In the next verses they speak of compassion, love, and suffering. Whatever is there, that is what I preach. That way the sheep are fed. And that is the command that Jesus gave Peter: Feed my sheep.
Like I said, every church is different. Don't judge them all by your experience with one.

The Catholic Church does not emphasize a personal relationship with Christ; it emphasizes liturgy. If you are not being fed by the church you are going to find another one, but not another false religion.
DHK

 

another false religion?

 

False error means a false religion.
Can you prove your doctrines through the Bible alone?
If not then it is a false religion. Quite frankly you believe in a religion that is riddled with man-made doctrines that are unproveable by the Bible. I have listed some of them above. If you want another list let me know.
DHK

 

That's a new one to me.

Every Mass our parish priests (there are three, so it depends are who is the celebrant)all tell us how much God loves us and that Christ freely gave His life to redeem us. They also point out from the gospels how we can grow in our love of God and serve Him with our whole heart.

SS is a false man-made doctrine. It most certaintly wasn't around in the time of the early Christians and this has been proven by several sources. So, I guess you are following a false religion since you adhere to a false doctrine that isn't even scriptural.

 

False error means a false religion.
Can you prove your doctrines through the Bible alone?
If not then it is a false religion. Quite frankly you believe in a religion that is riddled with man-made doctrines that are unproveable by the Bible. I have listed some of them above. If you want another list let me know.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]If you read what I wrote, I emphasized "another"... since you said "another false religion" I thought that you were suggesting that he would be going from one false religion (IFB) to another one. (I already know that you believe Catholicism to be false-- just wasn't too sure why you said "another.")

 

That's a new one to me.

Every Mass our parish priests (there are three, so it depends are who is the celebrant)all tell us how much God loves us and that Christ freely gave His life to redeem us. They also point out from the gospels how we can grow in our love of God and serve Him with our whole heart.</font>[/QUOTE]So a priest tells you how much God loves you. Mormons do the same. That says nothing of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ which apparently (by your post) you know nothing about.

So says the Catholic Church which has indoctrinated into every Catholic to hate SS becasue it so devastates all of their beliefs, since their beliefs come straight from the Magesterium and not from the Bible. SS would devastate all the man-made heretical doctrines such as Purgatory, the assumption of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, indulgences, prayers to the dead, confession to a priest, etc. These man-made doctrines are heretical, anti-biblical doctrines, some of which go directly against the grace of God in salvation. Catholics (either knowingly or unknowingly) spit in the face of God telling him that his blood was not sufficient enough to atone for their sins. They insult him and the salvation that he has so graciously provided.
DHK

 

So then you ... "became one"??

You mean - like CLEMENT and TURTULLIAN say THEY VIEWED IT???!!

How "interesting"!!

"IF" you are "REALLY" still in the IFB as a faithful member - then why don't YOU take a crack at the list of "details" in John 6 that CATHOLICS can not make themselves read?!!

Surely as a member of the IFB faithful YOU would not need to fear the details of John 6 the way our Catholic posters have been doing so far.

Why so "shy"??

Ohhh - so Clement and Turtullian were WRONG!!???

Well then maybe you can finally "Address" those pointed segments that are so devastating to Catholicism - as listed already!

OR "is it not time yet"??

One step towards error - followed by another - eh?

Just let me know before you start trying to murder fellow Catholics as did the RCC in the dark ages - or try "exterminating" non-Catholics as the Lateran IV council demanded.

Praying to the dead lately?

Getting "all cleaned up for purgatory" today?

Had any heart-to-heart discussions with the QUEEN of the UNIVERSE today?

Ok - I am just kidding!! Of course you would not leap "That far" into the dark in your Catholic enthusaism. I just could not resist asking!

In Christ,

Bob

 

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you prove your doctrines through the Bible alone?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See? Catholics don't READ their Bibles and then they try to defend that practice by attacking Sola Scriptura as the basis for Doctrinal proof!

Notice that in Acts 17:11 they are APPROVED who REJECT that Catholic Model and INSTEAD follow the SS practice "studying the SCRIPTURES DAILY to see IF THOSE THINGS spoken to them by PAUL were SO".

So what is the Catholic "answer"??

#1. DON't READ that!!

#2. PRETEND that NOBODY ELSE read that either!

#3. CLAIM that there is NO history of that!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Greetings,

You said: One step towards error - followed by another - eh?

Just let me know before you start trying to murder fellow Catholics as did the RCC in the dark ages - or try "exterminating" non-Catholics as the Lateran IV council demanded.

Praying to the dead lately?

Getting "all cleaned up for purgatory" today?

Had any heart-to-heart discussions with the QUEEN of the UNIVERSE today?

Ok - I am just kidding!! Of course you would not leap "That far" into the dark in your Catholic enthusaism. I just could not resist asking

Response: Wow, are you scared. That was the most viceral attack on the catholic church I have heard recently. I could understand if you tried to explain John 6, but this attack is very odd.

If you have the truth, then do not fear if someone asks questions. True search for the truth should not make us fear, because the true searcher will find the truth. If you have the truth, then don't fear.
peace

 

Ha, Ha, Bob what whit, but seriously, what kind of idiotic response was that Bob? Sad thing is that YOU, a member of the Seventh Day Adventist, a religion that meets ALL the hallmarks of a CULT have the gall of pointing his finger at the Catholic Church and me!

You need to look at your own religions beliefs who hold’s their leaders, Ellen G. White’s bible, The Clear Word Bible contradictions over the Word of God, before you start on the Catholic Church and I’m supposed to take YOUR word. Yeah, right.

 

Greetings,

The interesting thing about sola Scriptura is that it depends on the magisterium for the existance of the scripture, then denies the same magisterium. To deny the authority of the magisterium would also deny the scripture that the magisterium canonized. The Holy Spirit is with the Magisterium guiding it, and there by we can trust scripture as also guided by the Holy Spirit.

Scriptures were not completely written until the end of the first century. It then took about 75-100 to be all dispersed throughout christianity. However, along with normal scriptures were MANY other writings. So in 393, 397, 401, 419 councils were held to determine the canon of scriptures. That is where we get the canon of the new testament. In order to Trust the scriptures we have You MUST believe that the Holy Spirit kept the magisterium infallible at least in regards to scripture. To deny magisterium is to deny the scripture in which they were instrumental in collecting together.

peace

 

What makes you think that I don't?

I know that I was created to know, love, and serve God in this life so that I may spend eternity with Him.

Jesus is the true love of my life and has always been. Daily, I seek Him and I carry my cross for Him.

 

Living4Him,

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in rightiousness, that the man of God might be complete, and thoroughly equipped for every good work."

If the scriptures are insufficient, and something more is needed, than how could the scriptures make us complete, and thoroughly equipped?

If more were needed than we would be incomplete and partially equipped with only the scriptutres.

God says we are complete and thoroughly equipped with the scriptures.

I choose to believe God and not the nonsense of men, and their silly traditions.

"These were more fairminded than those at Thessolanica, in that they recieved the word with all readiness,and they searched the scriptures daily, to see whether these things be so"

Clear as a bell, isnt God?

There were no early christians during the book of Acts years.

What were they then...Buddhists?

Thank God for His wonderful scriptures,

Mike

 

Bob Ryan said...

Mike

 

D28guy,

You are taking this verse out of context.

The earliest Christians had no New Testament to which they could appeal; they learned from oral, rather than written, instruction. Until relatively recent times, the Bible was inaccessible to most people, either because they could not read or because the printing press had not been invented. All these people learned from oral instruction, passed down, generation to generation, by the Church.

Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2). He instructs us to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).

This oral teaching was accepted by Christians, just as they accepted the written teaching that came to them later. Jesus told his disciples: "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). The Church, in the persons of the apostles, was given the authority to teach by Christ; the Church would be his representative. He commissioned them, saying, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19).

And how was this to be done? By preaching, by oral instruction: "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ" (Rom. 10:17). The Church would always be the living teacher. It is a mistake to limit "Christ’s word" to the written word only or to suggest that all his teachings were reduced to writing. The Bible nowhere supports either notion.

Further, it is clear that the oral teaching of Christ would last until the end of time. "’But the word of the Lord abides for ever.’ That word is the good news which was preached to you" (1 Pet. 1:25). Note that the word has been "preached"—that is, communicated orally. This would endure. It would not be
supplanted by a written record like the Bible (supplemented, yes, but not supplanted), and would continue to have its own authority.

This is made clear when the apostle Paul tells Timothy: "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). Here we see the first few links in the chain of apostolic tradition that has been passed down intact from the apostles to our own day. Paul instructed Timothy to pass on the oral teachings (traditions) that he had received from the apostle. He was to give these to men who would be able to teach others, thus perpetuating the chain. Paul gave this instruction not long before his death (2 Tim. 4:6–8), as a reminder to Timothy of how he should conduct his ministry.

Sacred or apostolic tradition consists of the teachings that the apostles passed on orally through their preaching. These teachings largely (perhaps entirely) overlap with those contained in Scripture, but the mode of their transmission is different.

They have been handed down and entrusted to the Churchs. It is necessary that Christians believe in and follow this tradition as well as the Bible (Luke 10:16). The truth of the faith has been given primarily to the leaders of the Church (Eph. 3:5), who, with Christ, form the foundation of the Church (Eph. 2:20). The Church has been guided by the Holy Spirit, who protects this teaching from corruption (John 14:25-26, 16:13).

Paul illustrated what tradition is: "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. . . . Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed" (1 Cor. 15:3,11). The apostle praised those who followed Tradition: "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2).

The first Christians "devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching" (Acts 2:42) long before there was a New Testament. From the very beginning, the fullness of Christian teaching was found in the Church as the living embodiment of Christ, not in a book. The teaching Church, with its oral, apostolic tradition, was authoritative. Paul himself gives a quotation from Jesus that was handed down orally to him: "It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35).

This saying is not recorded in the Gospels and must have been passed on to Paul. Indeed, even the Gospels themselves are oral tradition which has been written down (Luke 1:1–4). What’s more, Paul does not quote Jesus only. He also quotes from early Christian hymns, as in Ephesians 5:14. These and other things have been given to Christians "through the Lord Jesus" (1 Thess. 4:2).

Paul warned, "See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ" (Col. 2:8). But these verses merely condemn erroneous human traditions, not truths which were handed down orally and entrusted to the Church by the apostles. These latter truths are part of what is known as apostolic tradition, which is to be distinguished from human traditions or customs.


It is quite evident that this passage furnishes no argument whatever that the sacred Scripture, without Tradition, is the sole rule of faith; for, although sacred Scripture is profitable for these four ends, still it is not said to be sufficient. The Apostle [Paul] requires the aid of Tradition (2 Thess. 2:15). Moreover, the Apostle here refers to the scriptures which Timothy was taught in his infancy.

A good part of the New Testament was not written in his (Timothy's) boyhood. Some of the epistles were not written even when Paul wrote this, and none of the books of the New Testament were then placed on the canon of the Scripture books. He refers, then, to the scriptures of the Old Testament, and, if the argument from this passage proved anything, it would prove too much, viz., that the scriptures of the New Testament were not necessary for a rule of faith.

When read in the context of the surrounding passages, one discovers that Paul’s reference to Scripture is only part of his exhortation that Timothy take as his guide Tradition and Scripture. The two verses immediately before it state: "But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it, and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 3:14–15).

Paul tells Timothy to continue in what he has learned for two reasons: first, because he knows from whom he has learned it—Paul himself—and second, because he has been educated in the scriptures. The first of these is a direct appeal to apostolic tradition, the oral teaching which the apostle Paul had given Timothy. But when the passage is read in context, it becomes clear that it is teaching the importance of apostolic tradition!

Consider Matthew 15:6–9, "So by these traditions of yours you have made God’s laws ineffectual. You hypocrites, it was a true prophecy that Isaiah made of you, when he said, ‘This people does me honor with its lips, but its heart is far from me. Their worship is in vain, for the doctrines they teach are the commandments of men.’" Look closely at what Jesus said.

He was not condemning all traditions. He condemned only those that made God’s word void. In this case, it was a matter of the Pharisees feigning the dedication of their goods to the Temple so they could avoid using them to support their aged parents. By doing this, they dodged the commandment to "Honor your father and your mother" (Ex. 20:12).

Elsewhere, Jesus instructed his followers to abide by traditions that are not contrary to God’s commandments. "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice" (Matt. 23:2–3).

What most protestants often do, unfortunately, is see the word "tradition" in Matthew 15:3 or Colossians 2:8 or elsewhere and conclude that anything termed a "tradition" is to be rejected. They forget that the term is used in a different sense, as in 1 Corinthians 11:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15, to describe what should be believed. Jesus did not condemn all traditions; he condemned only erroneous traditions, whether doctrines or practices, that undermined Christian truths. The rest, as the apostles taught, were to be obeyed. Paul commanded the Thessalonians to adhere to all the traditions he had given them, whether oral or written.

The task is to determine what constitutes authentic tradition. How can we know which traditions are apostolic and which are merely human? The answer is the same as how we know which scriptures are apostolic and which are merely human—by listening to the magisterium or teaching authority of Christ’s Church. Without the Catholic Church’s teaching authority, we would not know with certainty which purported books of Scripture are authentic. If the Church revealed to us the canon of Scripture, it can also reveal to us the "canon of Tradition" by establishing which traditions have been passed down from the apostles. After all, Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church (Matt. 16:18) and the New Testament itself declares the Church to be "the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

 

Living4Him,

Nice diversionary attempt, but it wont work. And btw, why stop there? Why not also say that that passage of scripture only applies to men, and not women, since it says

THAT would be just as silly as what you did post.

The truth is...That was then. This is now. God knows the beginning for the end, and the end from the begoinning.

They had all the word of God that was available at that time...and it was called the scriptures.

Tody we have all the word of God that is avaiable now...and it is called the scriptures.

And so, this is just as true for us as it was for them:

NOT all traditions. NOT all oral teaching. NOT all that the church fathers taught. NOT all that a hierarchial monstrocity will dictate.

All scripture.

God will continue to allow false religious systems to flail about in their falsehoods, superstitions, traditions and contradictions to His truth.

God bless,

Mike

 

Nice diversionary attempt, but it wont work. And btw, why stop there? Why not also say that that passage of scripture only applies to men, and not women, since it says

THAT would be just as silly as what you did post.

The truth is...That was then. This is now. God knows the beginning for the end, and the end from the begoinning.

They had all the word of God that was available at that time...and it was called the scriptures.

Tody we have all the word of God that is avaiable now...and it is called the scriptures.

And so, this is just as true for us as it was for them:

NOT all traditions. NOT all oral teaching. NOT all that the church fathers taught. NOT all that a hierarchial monstrocity will dictate.

All scripture.

God will continue to allow false religious systems to flail about in their falsehoods, superstitions, traditions and contradictions to His truth.

God bless,

Mike </font>[/QUOTE]Mike,

Your logic doesn't make any sense. You are just proving that SS is a recent man made invention.

If you stick by your logic, the OT was the only thing known to be Scripture.

By SS, you would have no idea what NT books should be included in the canon of Scriptures, because the Bible didn't have a little index.

 

Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Has always been? all your life?

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Romans 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

You have sinned. You have fallen short of God's glory. What do you mean you have a personal relationship with Christ. You have been sinning since the day that you were born. You cannot have a personal relationship with Christ as long as sin stands in the way, and it is impossible for man (a priest) to forgive that sin.
DHK

 

The canonicity of Scripture is one topic. It is a closed topic as far as we are concerned. There are 66 books in the canon of Scripture and:

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The Catholic Church only brings upon itself a curse by adding to it.

Sola Scripture has nothing to do with this topic.
The Bereans used SS long before this as was amply demonstrated many times.

Philip use SS when speaking to the Ethiopian Eunuch in the same way. What did Phiip do? Appeal to the Catholic Magesteriam Hardly!!

His appeal was to Scripture, and strictly to Scripture.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
DHK

 

Well, I guess you are calling God a liar.

Matthew 16:19, when Jesus gave the power and authority to Peter, "And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matthew 18:18, Jesus gave this power to all of the Apostles, "Amen I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed also in heaven."

John 20:21-23, "He therefore said to them again, 'Peace be to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you'. When He had said this, He breathed upon them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit; whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained'."

2Corinthians 5:17-20, "Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, GOD making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."

2Corinthians 2:10, "Whom you pardon anything, I also pardon. Indeed, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I have done for your sakes, IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST."