Understanding the "tithe"

You don't but many do.

I think you have a point. But likewise, it should be recognized that those who object to the edict to tithe (which I agree with you that it is not a law) typically are looking for an excuse not to give. That is by no means all, or even the majority, but it is more than a few.

 

Consider thyself fortunate.

I think it's an obligation, at lest in the same manner that good manners are an obligation. I don't think it's a law, however.

I have no doubt that those people exist as well. The "not more than 10%" folks.

 

Earlier there was a mention of the magical 30% requirement.

Does anyone know of the scripture reference that is claimed to support this?

 

That would mean going to the temple once every three years ... that is still 10% per year ... or that is a misrepresentation of MATHEMATICS ...

But, I think that a misunderstanding of math is what happens in most people's theology.

The reading should indicate one of the two following:

If the 3d year is an additional tithe that year - then it is an effective 10.333%/year ... else, it is still 10%/year.

Thanks!

 

Quoted by JohnV: It seems that there's a movement in teh church that berates those who tithe. You'd think it was some sort of "giver's lib" movement. They'll be burning their offering envelopes next.

I never have berated anyone that wants to give the equivilent of a 10% tithe. It is however usually the churches teaching this false doctrine that berates the ones that don't.

It is amazing to see this board comming to the conclusion that the tithe is not N.T. There has been much study from many people. This is a good thing.

I am against calling giving a tithe because of how the word empowers people teaching it wrongly to excercise legalisim over others.

Quoted by JohnV: I think you have a point. But likewise, it should be recognized that those who object to the edict to tithe (which I agree with you that it is not a law) typically are looking for an excuse not to give. That is by no means all, or even the majority, but it is more than a few.

Why is it that when people study the bible and recognize the truth that N.T. giving is the way to go, people like you accuse them of looking for excuses not to give?

Look John, I have been in churches where tithing was practised and enforced. It was a sickening experience to watch how people are picked to serve based on their giving.(not biblical). How they were told they were robbing God if they missed a week, or they were told to tithe even if the rent isn't paid. Tithe no matter what. Can't out give God.

None of that is or ever has been biblical! The bottom line is that the N.T. church is set up to GIVE, not TITHE.

When you say that those that have found the truth of the matter are looking for ways not to give, you are kicking God in the teeth. If giving isn't a better way it makes God a liar and you right!. I don't think so. If giving wasn't better we would still be tithing O.T. style. Which is NOT the way tithing is being practised in the church.

I don't berate anyone. But I do berate the practise because it makes you stubborn Christians act like you know better than God. Once you get it in your mind that you are right you start(not you personally)imposing this pharasitacal behavior on others.

God knew what He was doing. There are many christians that give with a cheerful heart because they have been liberated from this false teaching.

 

He risked his life and those of his company to rescue Lot. Thus, he earned the spoils. "To the victor goes the spoils".

He gave it back because (1) it was stolen from Sodom (vs 11) and should be returned to them and (2) he wanted God to get the glory and not the king of Sodom (vs 23)


Don't look at tithing as us giving God 10%, look at it as God giving us 90%. I'll be thrilled to give a $1 for every $10 you give me.

 

What exactly does that prove?

That we should imitate him?

He also sacrificed burnt offerings.
He was also a polygamist.

HankD

 

Regular tithing is an attitude. It's an attitude that you owe God, not that He owes you. It's my unscientific observation that those who don't tithe have unhealthy attitudes about money in general. Tithing starts the journey of putting your heart and mind in the right frame. Heck, even Suze Orman instructs those who are financially strapped to begin budgeting a part of their income (and she even says that 10% is a good round figure) to give away.

Now, that being said, I don't think tithing is commanded by scriptural law. That doesn't make it any less of an obligation, however. Of course, this is strictly my $.02, and not something I can point scripture and say "y'all must do this".

Correct. I believe tithes to be paid. Offerings are given.

 

While it's true that there is no shortage of tithers who use the tithe as an excuse to not give more than 10%, there is likewise no shortage of people who eschew the tithe as an excuse to give less than 10%. Both of those attitudes, imo, are poor Christian attitudes. Again, strictly my opinion, not something that is scripturally clear.

While it's true that berating a person who doesn't tithe is not biblically called for (and, imo, a perversion of scripture), I do think that every person should tithe no matter what. But that is strictly a personal matter, not an institutional matter. Churches should encourage tithing and giving, but should not enforce it. I hope that makes sense.

Now as to tithing no matter what, I stated earlier that financial analysts who counsel people with debt problems will instruct people to budget a portion of their income to give away. Why? Because it changes that person's mental outlook on money by empowering them with financial control, instead of allowing their finances to control them (which can sometimes be a sin). I myself was living less-then-paycheck to paycheck when I decided to tithe. At the time I was making less than 12k per year. I had financial problems for years prior to that. You know what? Within 6 months, I was out of debt. Within 5 years, I had purchased a house. I'm not saying tithing will get you a house, but tithing will put your heart on the right track to control your finances, that will lead you to financial security. All Christian, imo, should strive to be financially secure (note that I didn't say "rich" or "wealthy"). Financial insecurity results in us being a slave to the finances, and no one can serve two masters.

Okay, enough about my finance soapbox. Tithing makes good spiritual sense. Giving and tithing make better spiritual sense.

Any type of giving, whether it's via the tithe or via the offering, should be done with a cheerful heart. Even if one gives his entire fortune, but does not do so with a cheerful heart, it profits nothing.

 

What exactly does that prove? </font>[/QUOTE]My point is that tithing is not tied directly to the law since it was instituted before the law was given. I was directing this to those that say "we're not under the law but grace", with which I agree, to show that their point doesn't apply here.

So, when we read:
Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
- it's as much applicable today as it was the day it was penned.

 

(1) My offering has been made by Jesus.
(2) One man and one woman.

Any scripture anywhere in the Bible that says not to tithe?

 

How so? In verse 3 God specifically addresses the Levites, in verse 4 Judah and Jerusalem, in verse 6 the sons of Jacob, in verse 9 the whole Nation of Israel, in verse 10 the storehouse which was destroyed along with the Temple in AD70 so it couldn't possibly be applicable today unless you reinterpret or allegorize Malachi 3.

The levitical priests were absconding part of the tithes brought to them by the citizenry of the Nation of Israel who were apparently also holding back.

If one wants to preach a tithe, I personally have no problem with it as long as it is preached as a free will act of faith in keeping with grace as opposed to law.

We shouldn't lay a legal yoke (directly or indirectly) on the neck of those who are to live by faith.

HankD

 

No but the argument from silence normally doesn't prove anything without a positive affirmation.

For instance - Any scripture anywhere in the Bible that says not to keep the Sabbath?

So are you a Seventh Day Baptist?

HankD

 

Posted by JohnV:Any type of giving, whether it's via the tithe or via the offering, should be done with a cheerful heart. Even if one gives his entire fortune, but does not do so with a cheerful heart, it profits nothing.

You insist on keeping the tithe alive. Is it wrong to tithe? Yes! Because it is NOT N.T. to do so. We are to give. We MUST stop weaving in false teaching and calling it biblical or the lines will be even more blurred than they already are. There is NO tithe in the N.T.!

 

(1) My offering has been made by Jesus.
(2) One man and one woman.
Any scripture anywhere in the Bible that says not to tithe? </font>[/QUOTE]Cite the scriptures which say what your 2 points were (if you can).