Question for discussion.

Did Abraham die, with the Holy Spirit being in him or did he die, having been told by God, that in his seed all the nations of the earth would be blessed, by the giving of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of the Truth?

Consider. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:38.39

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through the faith. Gal 3:14

That we might receive the promise of the Spirit through the faith, that is through the seed of Abraham, that is through the substance of things hopped for the evidence of things not seen, that is through the resurrection from the dead. Acts 2:32,33 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

I do not have an answer to your question - but I have just signed up for this forum and I do not know how to post a question - could someone help me?

Cyndi from Cullman said:

I do not have an answer to your question - but I have just signed up for this forum and I do not know how to post a question - could someone help me?

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Hi Cyndi,
Look for the new member introduction forum.
You can start a post in that forum to ask questions.
Look at the bottom of the thread list for the "start new thread" button.

Rob

percho said:

Did Abraham die, with the Holy Spirit being in him or did he die, having been told by God, that in his seed all the nations of the earth would be blessed, by the giving of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of the Truth?

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Romans 8:9. 'Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.'
Pentecost was not the beginning of the Spirit's work, but at Pentecost He came in a much wider and more powerful way.

Deacon said:

Hi Cyndi,
Look for the new member introduction forum.
You can start a post in that forum to ask questions.
Look at the bottom of the thread list for the "start new thread" button.

Rob

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Thank you so much!!


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John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Martin Marprelate said:

Romans 8:9. 'Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.'
Pentecost was not the beginning of the Spirit's work, but at Pentecost He came in a much wider and more powerful way.

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The question stands. Did Abraham die having the Spirit in him or did he die with the promise of the Holy Spirit to be received through the going away of Christ?

percho said:

Did Abraham die, with the Holy Spirit being in him or did he die, having been told by God, that in his seed all the nations of the earth would be blessed, by the giving of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of the Truth?

Consider. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:38.39

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through the faith. Gal 3:14

That we might receive the promise of the Spirit through the faith, that is through the seed of Abraham, that is through the substance of things hopped for the evidence of things not seen, that is through the resurrection from the dead. Acts 2:32,33 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

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"Did Abraham die, with the Holy Spirit being in him"

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Yes.

"having been told by God, that in his seed all the nations of the earth would be blessed,

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Three seeds are involved.
1) Abraham's (stock/sperm) seed descendants, WHO, have the Seed of God, ie Christ.
2) Gentiles, WHO, have the Seed of God, ie Christ.
3) The Seed of God, ie Christ.

Any man (Jew or Gentile) who has the Seed of God (ie Christ), is a son of Abraham, whose "descendants" are people in nations throughout the world.

Gen.17

1. [5] Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Gal.3

1. [16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
2. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Heb.2

1. [16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Jesus took upon himself the seed of Abraham, so does everyone who has the Seed of God, ie Christ.
And in the day Abraham received the Seed of God (ie Christ) Abraham was glad.

John.8

1. [56] Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Heb.7

1. [1] For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

percho said:

The question stands. Did Abraham die having the Spirit in him or did he die with the promise of the Holy Spirit to be received through the going away of Christ?

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I'm sorry. I thought I'd made myself clear. Abraham died having the Sprit dwelling within him, as did all the O.T. saints..

And once again, fake theology is being posted and reposted. Abraham died under the Old Covenant. All these claims to apply New Covenant theology to Abraham's condition are bogus.

Abraham obtained approval by faith.

Hello everyone..newbie member here. An interesting question concerning Abraham. I think the answer, indirectly, is how would anyone enter into glory when they leave this earth? God crushed His on Son (Is 53) for the sins of His people. So Abraham would've been justified through imputation as the only means of Salvation (Mrk 1:15). I know all of this occurred "After" Abraham, but it had to have been true in his day, even though it was revealed/being revealed centuries later. Yes, Abraham was spirit filled--had to have been, else he would not be in glory now. Thoughts?

Happy said:

John.8

1. [56] Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Heb.7

1. [1] For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

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I would like to say a little about the meaning of John 8:56. I believe it to be the following. Jesus said, Abraham rejoiced to see my day. Here is what I believe to be the day spoken of in the manner in which Abraham saw that day.

The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes. This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it. Ps 118:22-24

The day the stone the builders refused became the head of the corner was the day the Lord was resurrected from the dead.

Acts 4:10,11 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

Abraham saw the resurrection of his seed, Christ, (the day of Christ) in whom all the nations of the earth would be blessed in being told to sacrifice his only begotten seed Isaac.

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. Hebrews 11:17-19

The figure of the resurrection of Christ.

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 1 Cor 15:17,18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col 1:18

Martin Marprelate said:

Romans 8:9. 'Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.'
Pentecost was not the beginning of the Spirit's work, but at Pentecost He came in a much wider and more powerful way.

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What would you see as being difference between the Old Covenant and new Covenant workings of Him?

Yeshua1 said:

What would you see as being difference between the Old Covenant and new Covenant workings of Him?

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First of all, The natural man [ie. the man without the Spirit; compare verse 15] does not receive the things of God, for they are foolishness to him' (1 Corinthians 2:14). I see no reason to suppose that these verses apply only to the NT era.

In answer to your question, the main difference in the New Covenant is that every true Christian is born of the Spirit (Romans 8:8-9). Under the Old Covenant, only a few people had the Spirit and therefore only a few were saved (Isaiah 1:9).

Van said:

And once again, fake theology is being posted and reposted. Abraham died under the Old Covenant. All these claims to apply New Covenant theology to Abraham's condition are bogus.

Abraham obtained approval by faith.

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Every man, regardless of era, GAINS the "Seed of God" BY FAITH and SUBMISSION unto God.

An earthly man MUST become born again.
An earthly man Becomes born again BY his ("natural" spirit within from a "natural" earthly mans seed) becoming
BORN AGAIN BY Gods SEED entering the man and BIRTHING the man a NEW "spiritual" spirit.

^ NO FAITHFUL (submissive) MAN of the earth is EXCEPTED from the condition of HAVING TO BECOME born again.

And every FAITHFUL MAN who receives the SEED of God, does so "BY" the Word of God, ie Christ Jesus, who IS the SEED of God.

Mankind "witnessing" Jesus' "bodily" death, DID NOT WITNESS, WHEN the Word of God was "murdered" during the time the foundation of the earth was being laid. (Murdered BY Lucifer).
(ie the KILLING of Gods Word, WHEN, Lucifer thought he could supersede Gods Word, thus making Gods Word "not true" thus; killing Gods Word). Thus, Satan was a LIAR and MURDER from the beginning.

Rev 13

[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Abraham was faithful, (as were others noted to us in Biblical history). As with others, the Word of God dwelt within Abraham. It does not matter IF Abraham knew or understood, the Word of God has a name, indwells, is Spirit, effects a mans "born again" spirit. <--- that understanding is given much later, after Abraham's bodily death.

Every man WHO becomes a saint is a man WHO is “sacred, physically pure, holy, sealed unto God.”

Every man WHO becomes a saint is a man WHO is "made" (ie, restored, changed, sanctified) WHOLE.

Every man WHO becomes a saint does so BY Faith in God and submission unto God;
The WHOLE of God; Word, Power, Name, etc.

No doubt Abraham was FAVORED, because of His Faith in God.
No doubt Abraham was made WHOLE, because of His Faith in God.
No doubt Abraham did not KNOW, the terms (ie born again), that we use today.

John.3

1. [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
2. [7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pet.1

1. [23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Matt 9

[22] But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole.

Luke.17

1. 
   
   
   • [19] And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

1Thes.5

1. 
   
   
   • [23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Van said:

And once again, fake theology is being posted and reposted. Abraham died under the Old Covenant. All these claims to apply New Covenant theology to Abraham's condition are bogus.

Abraham obtained approval by faith.

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And these all, (Including Abraham) having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: Heb 11:39

And this is said next; V 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

What is this better thing that makes us perfect and will also perfect Abraham? I believe this to be answered in verse 35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

One might ask; What is better about it? What promise was received by Christ that will make that resurrection better? Since Christ going away in death and the being raised from the dead and glorified and shedding forth the Spirit, what will the Spirit of Adoption do to us for us that we might have a better resurrection.

The promise of the Holy Spirit was given by the Father to the resurrected Son and henceforth shed forth and assures us of a better resurrection to perfection.
The Spirit of Adoption will be brought forth in the Adoption, the redemption of the body. Romans 8:15, 11, 23 Eph 1:13,14 until the redemption, 2 Cor 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.-- What selfsame thing?

Martin Marprelate said:

First of all, The natural man [ie. the man without the Spirit; compare verse 15] does not receive the things of God, for they are foolishness to him' (1 Corinthians 2:14). I see no reason to suppose that these verses apply only to the NT era.

In answer to your question, the main difference in the New Covenant is that every true Christian is born of the Spirit (Romans 8:8-9). Under the Old Covenant, only a few people had the Spirit and therefore only a few were saved (Isaiah 1:9).

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Would you see it then has God had a Covenant with israel as the nation, but not all under that were saved, but ALL under the new Covenant are saved, as not corporate, but individual salvation now?

Yeshua1 said:

Would you see it then has God had a Covenant with israel as the nation, but not all under that were saved, but ALL under the new Covenant are saved, as not corporate, but individual salvation now?

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Isn't that the natural implication of Jeremiah 31:31-34?

percho said:

I would like to say a little about the meaning of John 8:56. I believe it to be the following. Jesus said, Abraham rejoiced to see my day. Here is what I believe to be the day spoken of in the manner in which Abraham saw that day.

The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes. This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it. Ps 118:22-24

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Nothing specific about Abraham. The day, which the LORD hath made. The LORD makes every day.

The day the stone the builders refused became the head of the corner was the day the Lord was resurrected from the dead.

Acts 4:10,11 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

...to all people of Israel, specific to those people of Israel, and those hearing thereafter. Did not apply to Abraham, dead in the grave.

Abraham saw the resurrection of his seed, Christ, (the day of Christ) in whom all the nations of the earth would be blessed in being told to sacrifice his only begotten seed Isaac.

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Scripture reference? What Abraham saw "that" day, was a "result" of his own unyielding FAITH in God. Abraham was TESTED. Not for Gods benefit, but for Abraham's own benefit. And we benefit from observing via Scripture Abraham's testing, and yet never yielding to the flesh.

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. Hebrews 11:17-19

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Isaac didn't die. However Abraham's FAITH trusted God "was able", that even IF Isaac had died, God WOULD (was able) raise him up.

The figure of the resurrection of Christ.

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from whence also he received him in a figure.

Although that experience of Abraham IS A FORESHADOW, nothing says Abraham SAW JESUS.
Abraham received "him" (Isaac) back, FROM what Abraham THOUGHT would be Isaac's death.

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 1 Cor 15:17,18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col 1:18

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Yes. However ^ THAT (Christ Jesus being raised was not knowledge Abraham had, to consider).

Abraham MET the king of Salem (Jerusalem) the Priest of God, the King of peace, (who IS Christ), and blessed Abraham.

Heb.7

1. [1] For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2. [2] To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3. [3] Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

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The figure of the resurrection of Christ.

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from whence also he received him in a figure.

Although that experience of Abraham IS A FORESHADOW, nothing says Abraham SAW JESUS.
Abraham received "him" (Isaac) back, FROM what Abraham THOUGHT would be Isaac's death.

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 1 Cor 15:17,18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col 1:18

Click to expand...

Yes. However ^ THAT (Christ Jesus being raised was not knowledge Abraham had, to consider).

Abraham MET the king of Salem (Jerusalem) the Priest of God, the King of peace, (who IS Christ), and blessed Abraham.

Heb.7

1. [1] For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2. [2] To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3. [3] Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.