Today's Ten Commandment Debate

This has nothing to do with the discussion over the 10 vs. 613. Those in politics who are trying to get rid of the 10 commandments are not arguing that they have been abolished by Christ, and they are not even thinking about the entire set of 613! Most do not believe in God at all, or at least believe "religion" is a personal matter only and should not be imposed on anyone. This is understandable, as they do not know God, so what is the point in trying to get them to obey His commandments, as if that alone will save them. You can say that it "restrains" or otherwise influences people; and good. But this influence is still an outward appearance. We do not see what is in people's hearts, and that is where the sin lies. This whole thing centers on children: they looked so moral in the past, while adults committed all sorts of wickedness, with the 10 Commandments right up on the wall above them. Once again, they had no clue that racism was a form of murder, as defined by Jesus. It certainly violated the second of the two commandments, and as James then links them, the first as well (James 3:9)
But it's only when the KIDS started rebelling en masse, in the late 50's and onward, and then the sexual revolution, that people were alarmed and realized there was a problem. Then, came the fingers of blame pointing everywhere: communism, atheism/evolution, rock music, European enlightenment intellectuals, liberals, and even the Jews! Everywhere, that is, except the sin within! So then the chant became "we were a good nation when we had the Commandments, but you liberals ruined that, and caused us to fall". It's all human pride, with two classes of people; the good traditional American Christians, and everyone else; the "sinners" or "dogs" of the world, much like the Pharisees of the NT looked at the gentiles.
Where in the past, the people HEARD the Word, but did not DO it; today, people want to be "consistent", and say that since we cannot DO it, why even "hear" it?

This has nothing to do with the 613, or the abolition of OT ceremonial (non-universal moral/spiritual) aspects of the Law. The conservative Christians who push for the 10 commandments would generally agree that only 9 of them are universal, or they would take Moody's route of saying that the fourth is now Sunday. (as I said, according to Barna, many could not even name all of the 10!) But neither of those approaches is keeping the literal sabbath, so why appeal to oneover the other?

 

My point is it is not "making a difference". But that "difference" (a slight moral influence) is NOT the Church's mission. America is not the Kingdom of God with Christians as its police. We are to spread the Gospel, and try to make a moral influence where possible, but our first mission is salvation. Without that, morality will not do any good, but in fact make people more rebellious (Rom.7), and thus bring more condemnation.

Once again, only because the KIDS started rebelling en masse, that people were alarmed and realized there was a problem. Before God, this is NO DIFFERENT from saying "that person over there kills, and I only had consensual sex with that person I was not married to".
Kids also looked at their parents, statesmen, MINISTERS, preach morality to them, and then preach hatred to others for the color of their skin. Sexism was rampant as well. Many times, these authority figures were not even moral (sexually, stealing, killing, lying, etc) themselves. And I'm not talking a few "well, everyone was not an angel" instances; but these things were RAMPANT as is admitted by many now; the only difference was it was COVERED UP more. As some things got worse, a lot of this were cleaned up as well. That does not make up for the morality that was lost, but then neither does the morality of the past make up for all the other types of sin thast occurred back then either. Comparing both eras, it pretty much balance out, and points to a mankind made in God's image, but fallen in sin; a mixture of good and evil. If you want to judge by Law, then to fail in one point is to fail in the whole thing, and all of man's generations since Adam is EQUALLY condemned and lost. But if Christ came to save people from this curse, then that is what our message should be.
Saying one generation is better than another does nothing but exalt one group of people, and is no different from saying one race is better than another. Man IS "all the same", and to deny that is to deny the universality of the Fall. Meanwhile; it blinds us to the reality of sin, and God's redemption from it. We think we can justify ourselves just by having the 10 Commandments on the wall.

It has nothing to do with their "value". It is OUR deficiency that is the problem, not how much we try to force other people to obey them.

(One thing I liked about the Shepherd's Rod Message is that they pointed out that the SDA's were falling into some of the same political jargon and fearmongering as the very [sundaykeeping] "American Protestantism" they criticized as the second beast.)

 

Do ministers violate the commandment when they work on Sunday? (Yes, it is a silly question. The reasoning of many people is silly. The Pharisees attacked Christ on the sabbath commandment too, Christ told them, basically, not to be so legalistic.)

The importance is that you take at least one day to rest and honor God. Not "which" day.

 

It's not so much about "no difference", but History DOES support the view that man and his society is equally sinful in every age. If you don't think so, then you should go back into American history as a black, Indian, woman, Jew, children under domineering fathers; Christians under domineering preachers scaring everyone with hellfire (even if they are supposedly saved), 7th day sabbath keeper in Puritan lands, where Sunday is held as the sabbath, and violation of the law is punishable by death.
You SDA's talk so much about some future "national Sunday Law"; but it is in your "godly American past" that such laws existed, (founded on the theology of people like Moody) and in this "ungodly present", that pluralism has led to the liberty that allows your church to exist and worship God according to the dictates of your conscience.
If you argue that society is becoming so ungodly compared to the past, then how will some "sunday Law" ever be passed in the first place? Will society become "godly" again? No; but perhaps Christians will fight to try to make it "godly" again, and EG WHITE taught that this was what would lead to that national Sunday Law in the first place! It is based on this that the Shepherd's Rod points out how the SDA has fallen prey to the Sundaykeepers by getting mixed up iin this whole "American Christianity" thing, with its rabid fears of the various forms of leftism.

Who said anything about "becoming like atheists". You are reading things that I have not said.
What we are to is to preach the Gospel, which of course will point people to God's commandments. Upholding some overromanticized past as the godly ideal is denying sin and justifying people by works of righteousness that are only outward at that. Once again, sin was only covered up in the past. That doesn't mean that less of it was there.

 

Forcing non-Christians to read the 10 Commandments and pray to a God they do not believe in is to no avail! "By the works of the Law shall no flesh be saved".
The only purpose of that is CONTROL, and you as an SDA who speak of America as the second beast of Rev. 13 that will act like the first beast by revoking liberty whould know better than anyone! If the people pushing for "traditional Christian America" or Moody's Christianity got their way, it would not be the 7th day sabbath that would be enforced, so what would you do then?
I don't oppose Christians who "Support" prayer, but I do caution against turning to a gospel of national works-righteousness, which is the same exact thing Israel in the time of Christ had fallen to! The WORLD was ruined at the Fall, not in 1960's America (as if we were the center of the world). The MANIFESTATION of sin changes from era to era, with it being more outward or covered up at different times, but it was always here. How in the world could you fall for this stuff?

 

Wasn't practical to put the 613 commandments on stone so God only outlined his social contract for Israel.