Sabbath "Remains" for the People of God Heb 4

I didn't mention the flood or its relevance at all.

I didn't say that it stopped. Only that it is no longer necessary. I'm aware that Jews still practice the custom today. Practicing the rabbinnic laws is not forbidden.

Jews who are Christians are not required to adhere to rabbinnic law. Most do out of tradition, which is perfectly acceptible scripturally. However, they are not scripturally required to. I've known Reformed Jews will on occaision eat a cheeseburger or bacon. Reformed Jews don't isolate furniture for mentruating women. As for Orthodox Jews, they are more strict that Reformed Jews.

 

What is it they say about a broken clock? It's going to be right once or twice every day?

Well, tradition is often beneficial, but never doctrinal. As for scripture, where scripture speaks, we should speak; where it is silent, we should be silent. Scripture tells us to rest one day in seven, so we should. Scripture does not give doctrinal instuctions as to how we should impliment that day of rest. That is up to us (even Paul says not to judge a person's view of the Sabbath, and allow each person to be convinced in his own mind). What matters is that we truly refrain from work one day in seven. I dunno about you, but that sounds like I'll be more than happy to impliment.

Is 66 tells inscructs people to come to the Lord and worship "from sabbath to sabbath". Traditionally, the Jews worshipped on their day of rest. However, in the NT, we're called to worship Him continually, not just occaisionally, making the worship aspect of the OT sabbath moot. HOwever, as you can see in Is 66, it was not a calling to worship just on the sabbath, but rather "from sabbath to sabbath".

Prior to the NT, I'd say it has merit. But, from the NT on, we're to worship continually, not just on the Sabbath.

[/QB]
Christ said that the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. That's pretty self-explanatory. Additionally, while God instituted the 7th day rest rule, God did not tell his people what day is the first day and what day is the 7th day. Especially on today's calendar, we men have which day of the week is Sunday, Monday, etc. Westerners traditionally view SUnday as the first day of the week, but I have business calendars which clearly show Monday as the first day of the week. Also, when considereing that scripture is now worldwide, when it is Saturday here, it is not somewhere else, making the whole idea of the days of the week somewhat fluid.

I happen to agree there.

 

Perhaps that was not its only purpose. But by the time the Jews are living with the Caananites, it's clear the the Rabbinic codes are seen as blessing by the Jews, who are, via the codes, keeping their distinctiveness in a peaceful manner, while living with others in the same land.

Taking scripture as a whole, it's evident that scripture no longer required circumcision. However, it was not forbidden. Here is a case where someone wanted to be circumcized, so it is allowed.

Same arguement. While no longer mandatory, it is still allowed to be practiced. I certainly do not frown on anyone who practices it as a matter of religious faith. Personally, I find the practice barbaric as we practice secularly practice it (hey, the least we could do is anesthetize the poor dudes). But I am scripturally forbidden from disallowing a person to practice it out of religious observance.

But, to the point, either scripture no longer requires it in the NT (which would be consistent with a whole reading of the NT), or scripture requires it one moment and not the next (which is inconsistent with a whole reading of the NT).

 

Anyhoo, at this point, there really isn't anything more to say on the topic. I invite anyone else to red the thread as a whole and decide for themselves. I'm kindly excusing myself from the topic from hereon out. I invite a moderator to close the thread if it is deemed appropriate to do so.

 

Is this an example of what you call bullying:

I pointed out to you that you cannot be an Israelite and a Christian at the same time, just as a Muslim cannot be part of Islam and Christianity at the same time. Both Judaism and Islam are false religions. That is what I said. Here is your reply.

Who is bullying who? Look at the false allegations here. Look at the accusations "bowing at the feet of paganism." What gives you the right to say such things? Who is being the bully here? Don't you think you should take your own advice.
DHK

 

As a point of clarification DHK, do you mean you cannot be a practitioner of the Jewish faith and Christian faith at the same time. An Israelite is a citizen of Israel who is a descendant of the physical line of Jacob---there are many of them who are Christian. You can be an Israelite and a Christian---Like you can be an American and a Christian.

Bro Tony

 

Your right Tony.
I was just going by memory. Part of the exact quote that I had originally made was:

 

Thanks for the clarification brother.

Bro Tony

 

COL 2:16

 

Great verse, be sure to read all the text to keep it in context especially vs 17, which tells us all these things are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is Christ.

Bro Tony

 

here are some quotes about Early christian worship:


74 AD - The Letter of Barnabas "We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with
joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead"
(Letter of Barnabas 15:6-8).

90 AD - The Didache "But every Lord's day . . . gather yourselves
together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed
your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one
that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they
be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14).

90AD - DIDACHE: ...every Lord's day, hold your solemn assemblies, and
rejoice: for he will be guilty of sin who fasts on the Lord's day,
being the day of the resurrection... (Constitutions of the Holy
Apostles, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. 7, pg. 449)

90AD - DIDACHE: And on the day of our Lord's resurrection, which is the
Lord's day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the
Universe by Jesus, and sent Him to us, and condescended to let Him
suffer, and raised Him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he
make to God who does not assemble on that day to hear the saving word
concerning the resurrection...? (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles,
Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. 7, pg. 423)

90AD - DIDACHE: But every Lord's day, do ye gather yourselves together,
and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your
transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is
at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be
reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that
which was spoken by the Lord... [Matt.5:23-24] (The Teaching of the
Twelve Apostles, Chap. 14:1, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. 7, page 381)

90AD - DIDACHE: On the day of the resurrection of the Lord, that is,
the Lord's day, assemble yourselves together, without fail, giving
thanks to God, and praising Him for those mercies God has bestowed upon
you through Christ, and has delivered you from ignorance, error, and
bondage, that your sacrifice may be unspotted, and acceptable to God,
who has said concerning His universal Church: "In every place shall
incense and a pure sacrifice be offered unto me; for I am a great King,
saith the Lord Almighty, and my name is wonderful among the heathen,
[Malachi 1:11, 14] (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Ante-Nicene
Fathers Vol. 7, pg. 471)

107AD - IGNATIUS: Be not deceived with strange doctrines, nor with old
fables, which are unprofitable. For if we still live according to the
Jewish law, we acknowledge that we have not received grace... If,
therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things
have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the
Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also
our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death which some deny),
through which mystery we received faith, and on account of which we
suffer in order that we may be found disciples of Jesus Christ our only
teacher, how shall we be able to live apart from him for whom even the
prophets were looking as their teacher since they were his disciples in
the spirit?... let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a
festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days of
the week. It is absurd to speak of Jesus Christ with the tongue, and to
cherish in the mind a Judaism which has now come to an end. for where
there is Christianity there cannot be Judaism.... These things I
address to you, my beloved, not that I know any of you to be in such a
state; but, as less than any of you, I desire to guard you beforehand,
that ye fall not upon the hooks of vain doctrine, but that you may
rather attain to a full assurance in Christ... (Ignatius, Epistle to
the Magnesians, chp 9. Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pg. 62-63.)

130AD - BARNABAS: Moreover God says to the Jews, 'Your new moons and
Sabbaths 1 cannot endure.' You see how he says, 'The present Sabbaths
are not acceptable to me, but the Sabbath which I have made in which,
when I have rested from all things, I will make the beginning of the
eighth day which is the beginning of another world.' Wherefore we
Christians keep the eighth day for joy, on which also Jesus arose from
the dead and when he appeared ascended into heaven. (15:8f, The Epistle
of Barnabas, 100 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers,vol. 1, pg. 147)

150AD - EPISTLE OF THE APOSTLES.- I [Christ] have come into being on
the eighth day which is the day of the Lord. (18)1150AD JUSTIN: those
who have persecuted and do persecute Christ, if they do not repent,
shall not inherit anything on the holy mountain. But the Gentiles, who
have believed on Him, and have repented of the sins which They have
committed, they shall receive the inheritance along with the patriarchs
and the prophets, and the just men who are descended from Jacob, even
although they neither keep the Sabbath, nor are circumcised, nor
observe the feasts. Assuredly they shall receive the holy inheritance
of God. (Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers
, vol. 1, page 207)

150AD - JUSTIN: But if we do not admit this, we shall be liable to fall
into foolish opinion, as if it were not the same God who existed in the
times of Enoch and all the rest, who neither were circumcised after the
flesh, nor observed Sabbaths, nor any other rites, seeing that Moses
enjoined such observances... For if there was no need of circumcision
before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and
sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after
that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has
been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham.
(Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1,
page 206)

150AD - JUSTIN: But Sunday is the day on which we hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day of the week and Jesus our saviour
on the same day rose from the dead. (First apology of Justin, Ch 68)

150AD - JUSTIN: Moreover, all those righteous men already mentioned
[after mentioning Adam. Abel, Enoch, Lot, Noah, Melchizedek, and
Abraham], though they kept no Sabbaths, were pleasing to God; and after
them Abraham with all his descendants until Moses... And you were
commanded to keep Sabbaths, that you might retain the memorial of God.
For His word makes this announcement, saying, "That you may know that
I am God who redeemed you." (Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD,
Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, page 204)

150AD - JUSTIN: The commandment of circumcision, requiring them always
to circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true
circumcision by which we are circumcised from error and evil through
the resurrection from the dead on the first day of the week of Jesus
Christ our Lord. For the first day of the week, although it is the
first of all days, yet according to the number of the days in a cycle
is called the eighth (while still remaining the first). (Dialogue 41:4)

150AD - JUSTIN: There is no other thing for which you blame us, my
friends, is there than this? That we do not live according to the Law,
nor, are we circumcised in the flesh as your forefathers, nor do we
observe the Sabbath as you do. (Dialogue with Trypho 10:1. In verse 3
the Jew Trypho acknowledges that Christians 'do not keep the Sabbath.')

150AD - JUSTIN: We are always together with one another. And for all
the things with which we are supplied we bless the Maker of all through
his Son Jesus Christ and through his Holy Spirit. And on the day called
Sunday there is a gathering together in the same place of all who live
in a city or a rural district. (There follows an account of a Christian
worship service, which is quoted in VII.2.) We all make our assembly in
common on the day of the Sun, since it is the first day, on which God
changed the darkness and matter and made the world, and Jesus Christ
our Savior arose from the dead on the same day. For they crucified him
on the day before Saturn's day, and on the day after (which is the day
of the Sun the appeared to his apostles and taught his disciples these
things. (Apology, 1, 67:1-3, 7; First Apology, 145 AD, Ante-Nicene
Fathers , Vol. 1, pg. 186)

155 AD - Justin Martyr "[W]e too would observe the fleshly
circumcision, and the sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did
not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you--namely, on
account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . .
[H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not
harm us--I speak of fleshly circumcision and sabbaths and feasts? . . .
God enjoined you to keep the sabbath, and impose on you other precepts
for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness
and that of your fathers" (Dialogue wit Trypho the Jew 18, 21).

you would think they would have mentioned the sabbath.

more quotes about the sabath:

John Calvin on the Early Church Fathers on the Sabbath/Lord’s Day Issue

However, the ancients did not substitute the Lord’s Day (as we call it) for the Sabbath without careful discrimination. The purpose and fulfillment of that true rest, represented by the ancient Sabbath, lies in the Lord’s resurrection. Hence, by the very day that brought the shadows to an end, Christians are warned not to cling to the shadow rite."

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, trans. Ford Lewis Battles (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1960), 1:399-400.

5th Century

St. Augustine:

"The day now known as the Lord's Day, the eighth, namely, which is also the first day of the week." St. Augustine, Letters of St. Augustine, 55, Chapter XIII.

4th Century A.D. 306

Peter, Bishop of Alexandria in Egypt:

"But the Lord's Day we celebrate as a day of joy, because on it, he rose again." Canon 15.

3rd Century A.D. 270

Anatolius, Bishop of Laodicea, in Asia Minor:

"Our regard for the Lord's resurrection which took place on the Lord's Day will lead us to celebrate it." Chapter X.

3rd Century About A.D. 250

The Apostolic Constitution:

"On the day of our Lord's resurrection, which is the Lord's Day, meet more diligently."

Book 2, sec. 7.

3rd Century A.D. 250

Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage in Africa:

"The eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath and the Lord's Day." Epistle 58, section 4.

2nd Century A.D. 200

Tertullian in Africa:

"We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradiction to those who call this day their Sabbath." Apology, Chapter XVI.

2nd Century A.D. 194

Clement of Alexandria, Egypt:

"He, in fulfillment of the precept, according to the gospel, keeps the Lord's Day, when he abandons an evil disposition, and assumes that of the Gnostic, glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself." Book 7, Chapter XII.

2nd Century A.D. 140

Justin Martyr: "But Sunday is the day which we all hold our common assembly, because Jesus Christ, our Saviour, on the same day rose from the dead." Apology, Chapter LXVII.

2nd Century A.D. 120

Barnabas: "We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day on which Jesus rose again from the dead." Chapter XVII.

1st Century A.D. 96

St. John on Patmos: "I was in the spirit on the Lord's Day." Rev. 1:10.


1st Century A.D. 60

Luke, Asia Minor: "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them." Acts 20:7.


thankyou and God Bless

 

and
Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

this verse even states the purpose for the Sabbath

to remember God's mighty Power in their deliverence from egypt

thankyou and God bless

 

and again scripture says that the new covenant would not be like the old covenant.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Yisra'el, and with the house of Yehudah:
Jer 31:32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband to them, says the LORD.