Can two walk unless they agree?

It's good to hear from you again Susan. I really sympathize with you and will pray for your situation. It almost sounds like spousal abuse doesn't it? But hang in there. The Lord gives grace that is sufficient for us day by day.

I don't believe it is possible to blaspheme the Holy Spirit any longer. That was a sin the Pharisees committed in that day and age in the very presence of Jesus while he was on this earth. They attributed the works of Christ to the works of Satan. But they were eyewitnesses of his miracles, and heard his very words. They, having seen and heard him, were convicted of their sin, and yet refused to believe. They said the works that he did he did by the hand of Satan, even while Jesus was right there standing before them. We no longer have that situation today. Jesus is no longer in the flesh today (at least not on this earth). So it is impossible for a believer to commit that sin.

Baptismal regeneration and speaking in tongues as a requirement for salvation are heresy. It is an indication that they are trusting in works rather than in Christ for their salvation. If you ask them what it means to be born again, they no doubt will answer "to be baptized," which again is heresy. They will point to John 3:5, as the Catholics do. But that is not what the "water" in John 3:5 refers to. It refers to the Word of God (1Pet.1:23). Nobody is saved through baptism. Baptism is always for those that have already been saved.

But it won't do any good to argue with him, especially in public. I would just be completely silent (as Jesus was when he was falsely accused) and let him preach to the crowd and not you. Don't react. Don't say anything. He should soon stop, if ignored.
Other than that, just pray.
DHK

 

susanpet,

bmerr here. I'm not too familiar with the whole "oneness" bunch, but I have a couple of things that might be helpful.

I've heard of the question about should we baptize in Jesus' name only, or in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? I think the answer lies in understanding what it means to do something in Jesus' name.

In Acts 4:1-12, we have an account of Peter and John being arrested by the Saducees for preaching in the Temple. When they began their inquiry of the two apostles, they asked, "By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?"

They wanted to know who had given them the authority to do what they were doing.

A similar account of an inquiry of Jesus sheds further light on the subject.

In Luke 20:1-8, Jesus is questioned concerning the authority for the things He has been doing and saying. He is asked, "Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority?"

He responds by asking them of the origin of the baptism of John, whether it was from heaven or from men. They understood Him to be asking who was responsible for the teaching.

To do something in someone's name is simply to do it by his authority. "Stop in the name of the law!"

When you get right down to it, to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is the same thing as baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Merely different ways of saying the same thing. The authority for either one belongs to Christ (Mat 29:19).

Further, I'd say that the Bible gives us good council in teaching to not marry outside of our faith. I'm sorry your husband is being such a knucklhead. It's wrong for him to act as he is.

The best thing you can do is to know what the Bible says about things, and back up any answer you give with a "Thus saith the LORD..." Not that proving your case always means you convince another of it (anyone skimming over these boards can attest to that!), but if you're saying just what the Bible says, you know you've got at least that much right.

Of course you should do your best to give him due respect for his position as your husband, but that does not include agreeing with his error.

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (1 Thes 5:21).

In Christ,

bmerr

 

The absolute truth.

This is a lie.

Absolute not!

Absolutely not!

You have been deceived.

Yes, big time.

 

This site offers a thorough explanation of the Oneness movement:

http://www.letusreason.org/Onenes1.htm

How you can tell someone is in a cult:

http://www.letusreason.org/culteac.htm

 

P-Nut,

bmerr here. Thanks for the link. Pretty interesting stuff. A little scary, too, but interesting

In Christ,

bmerr

 

susanpet,

bmerr here. Unfortunately, what the world calls "Christian", is not exactly what the Bible calls Christian. Folks always have to ask, "What kind of Christian", or "A Christian of what faith?"

Eph 4 tells us that there is only one faith. I guess one was not enough for the world, huh?

P-Nut was right. The gift of tongues is long since passed away. If I've heard correctly, the first time anyone came out and said, "Oh yes, the gift of tongues is still around", was in about the 3rd century. The implication being that it was general knowledge that tongues had passed away!

1 Cor 13:8-10 reads,

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect shall come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

The contrast here is between that which is "in part" and that which is "perfect". Prophecy and knowledge were in part, or incomplete. Tongues were for spreading the things that were in part.

"That which is perfect", that they were waiting for, is the written word of God. That has long since been completed, thus tongues, prophecy, and (miraculous) knowledge are all done away with.

Like most religious bodies, the Oneness bunch seem to have a few things right, and a few things wrong. Partial error is error, after all.

The whole "slain in the Spirit" thing is foriegn to the Bible as well. I'd never heard of it until Benny Hinn said it on some documentary about "modern day prophets" or something.

And God "knocked him down", did He? I'm a bit clumsy at times, but I've never thought of blaming it on God!

Dear one, I hope you get some relief. Follow the Scriptures. Trust them alone for truth. I'll pray for you.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

Susan, the hardest part is with your marriage. The above have given you the biblical vs. heretical teachings. In the meantime, what to do about the marriage situation?

You said he waits until you are out in public to humiliate you regarding his beliefs.

Remind him that Paul instructs us that husbands are to love their wives as they love their own bodies. Remind him that what he is doing in public is extremely hurtful to you and therefore to your marriage as well and your daughter. Then mention nicely that perhaps it would be better for you two not to go out in public together so that your daughter and you will not be subjected to such pain.

Tell him this quietly, with love. Then stick to it. If he says he will not do it again, believe him and try going out with him. He will either stick to his word or not, and you can take it from there. God bless you both and I pray the Holy Spirit opens his eyes and heart to the truth.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I think it has less to do with the issue of religion, and more to do with a husband who is either abusing the role of headship, and/or a husband who simply does not have respect for his spouse and family.

Maybe that's a bit harsh, but I think it's right to the point.

In Dr Laura-ish fashion, I'd venture to ask: was he like this before the marriage? The remedy there would be different depending on this.

 

First of all, the Biblical term for "Speaking in Tongues" has been completely misunderstood. It does not refer to "speaking gibberish"... it refers to speaking in a language that others can understand so that they can hear the Gospel message.


Speaking in Tongues by Jeff Wehr

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Chinese gentleman visited a charismatic church in which the members were speaking in tongues. One of the elders of the church recognized the Chinese man and visited his business the following week. When he asked the Chinese man how he liked the church service, the man shook his head in disapproval.

The elder said, "What was wrong? I thought I heard a lady speak in tongues that sounded like Chinese."

The Chinese man said, "She did speak in Chinese, and she was cursing God the whole time."

This is just one of many such examples, of which I have heard, of individuals who believed that they were praising God, but who were in fact cursing Him.

How could this be? Certainly the Holy Spirit would not lead someone to curse God. Could the devil have a counterfeit of the Biblical speaking in tongues?

For those of you who have never heard of this phenomenon of people speaking in an ecstatic tongue, let me take a brief moment to explain. Today between 7% and 20% of all Christians "speak in tongues" from time to time in a language that is not their mother tongue. The example above, of the lady who spoke in Chinese, is exceptional because usually those who speak in "tongues," speak in a language that linguists say has no systematic resemblance to any human language that is spoken today. It is this most common form of "speaking in tongues" (the nonhuman, nonintelligible language) upon which we will focus our study.

This phenomenon of spontaneously speaking in a language that is generally strange to humanity is of recent origin. While there were several incidents of tongue speaking during the 1800s, the first wave of it occurred at the beginning of the twentieth century.

It began on December 31, 1900, at Bethel College in Topeka, Kansas. When Pastor Charles Parham laid his hands upon some of the students, they began to speak in a form of speech that was not recognizable to anyone. One of those young students was Miss Agnes Ozman.

Six years later, in 1906, Ozman and several other students, who had received this experience, moved to Los Angeles and held meetings which started the "first Pentecostal effusion."

Since then, this tongue-speaking experience has taken in over 300 million Christians. What phenomenal growth! However, why is it happening now?

Some say it is a sign of the soon coming of Christ, and perhaps it is. Yet, that alone does not explain or prove that it is of God, or of Satan.

We do know that this form of ecstatic speech in an unknown language is not peculiar to Christianity--or even to religious people. This same phenomenon of speech is found among non-Christian religions, especially in Asia and Africa. This ecstatic speech is also found among atheists and agnostics.

Certainly it is not the Holy Spirit who is performing this phenomenon in religions that reject Jesus as the Saviour, and through others who even deny the existence of God, but it is happening. Research has shown that all of these forms of ecstatic speech in Christian and non-Christian communities is identically the same "cross-linguistically" and "cross-culturally."

Along with this gift to speak in an unknown tongue has come the gift to interpret these ecstatic utterances. Are these interpreters accurate?

An experiment was performed in which someone speaking in an ecstatic tongue was recorded on tape. They then replayed the tape to several different people who claimed to have the gift to interpret these utterances. However, there was no similarity in the several interpretations. They ranged in their interpretation from saying that the utterances referred to a prayer for the health of someone's children--to praising God for a recent and successful church, fund-raising effort. It is evident from this example that the interpreters were not accurate. So where are they getting their gift to interpret?

Of course, this phenomenon raises some very serious questions. If it is of the Holy Spirit, why do people misinterpret what is said? After all, the Bible says that the Holy Spirit will teach us all things. See John 14:26. If this is of the Holy Spirit, then why is He manifesting the same gift through different religions that teach contradictory beliefs. After all, the Bible says that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. See John 16:13.

It is easy enough to see that Satan would want to join the world's religions together through some spiritual manifestation. However, what does the Bible say concerning the speaking in tongues or in a different language?

Mark 16
First of all, Jesus foretold that His disciples would speak with "new tongues," "And these signs shall follow them that believe; in my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16:17-18.

The context of Jesus' words is His commission for His disciples to evangelize the world. The speaking with "new tongues" was to enable the disciples to speak with people who spoke other languages. The disciples would speak in a language that was "new" to them but understood by their audience.

When Jesus trained His disciples during His three-and-one-half-year ministry, He limited their training to reach out to the Jews living in Israel and Samaria. However, after Jesus ascended into heaven, He desired to send His disciples to every nation, tongue, and people. Consequently, He gifted them to speak in "new tongues" or languages.

Acts 2
In Acts 2:1-13 we have recorded the fulfillment of Jesus' prediction. The disciples and other fellow believers, 120 in number, gathered together for prayer and consecration in preparation to receive the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

When the day of Pentecost had come, the Holy Spirit came upon every individual, and they "began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Verse 4.

The speaking in an "other tongue" did not come by man's own efforts, but it was a gift the Holy Spirit bestowed upon the followers of Christ when they were gathered together. "Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. . . . And they were all amazed and marvelled . . . because that every man heard them speak in his own language." Verses 5, 7, 6.

Notice that the gift of the Holy Spirit to speak in a foreign and known human language was bestowed upon believers--not upon unbelievers. The purpose of the gift was to give unbelievers an opportunity to hear the gospel in their own language. Consequently, the gift itself would serve as a sign to unbelievers that the message they heard was from Heaven.

The result of Jesus' followers receiving the gift to speak in a different language was the conversion of "three thousand" precious souls to Christ in one day. Verse 41.

There were also present those who scoffed and mocked the disciples by suggesting that the disciples were drunk. See verse 13. They heard the gospel in their own language, thereby signifying that the gift bestowed upon the disciples was a definite sign that the message had the signet of Heaven. Yet, they rejected the message and the messengers.

Acts 10
The next example of "speaking in tongues" is found in Acts chapter 10. In this passage, the apostle Peter has an opportunity to teach Gentile believers in Caesarea. The Holy Spirit "fell on all them which heard the word. . . . For they heard them speak with tongues." Verse 44, 46.

On this occasion as well, the Holy Spirit came upon the believers--both Jew and Gentile Christians. The Holy Spirit "fell" upon them suddenly, representing that it was a special endowment from Heaven and not from man. The purpose of the gift was the communication of what God had accomplished through His Son Jesus.

Again we find this gift employed in a large metropolis where many different peoples and languages were represented. When Peter gave his report on the events of Caesarea, he said, "The Holy Ghost fell on them [in Caesarea], as on us at the beginning [in Jerusalem at Pentecost]." Acts 11:15. Of course, what happened in Jerusalem was that every man heard the gospel in his mother language.

It is important to note that Luke, the writer of the book of Acts, did not need to explain the manifestation of "speaking in tongues" in Caesarea. Why? Because he, the author, had already defined the gift in Acts chapter 2. Peter himself confirms that it was the identical manifestation of the Holy Spirit as experienced at Pentecost.

Acts 19
In Acts chapter 19 we see this gift exercised in another major city--Ephesus. Here the apostle Paul met with some believers who had no knowledge of the work of the Holy Spirit. Because these disciples in Ephesus were baptized with John's baptism, Paul instructed them about the true baptism "in the name of the Lord Jesus." Verse 5.

Paul then baptized them in the name of Jesus and laid his hands upon them, and "the Holy Ghost came on them." Verse 6.

This practice of the laying on of hands is often represented with the reception of the Holy Spirit, and as a sign that those involved were called to evangelize the world. Of course, the laying on of hands is not necessary for someone to receive the Holy Spirit. See Acts 2:1-4; 9:10-18; 10:46-48. Nor does everyone "speak in tongues" because he received the laying on of hands. See Acts 2:41; 8:38-39; 9:18; 16:15, 33. It was simply a practice in those days as they dedicated themselves to receive God's Spirit, to accept Jesus as Lord, and to fulfill the gospel commission.

Greek scholars tell us that the Greek form of the verb "to speak" in this passage is in the imperfect tense, indicating that the gift was bestowed for continuous and prolonged use. The believers in Jerusalem and Caesarea also received the same permanent gift to proclaim the gospel far and near.

Commenting on these verses, Sister White wrote, "Thus they were qualified to labor as missionaries in Ephesus and its vicinity, and also to go forth to proclaim the gospel in Asia Minor." Review and Herald, August 31, 1911.

1 Corinthians 12-14
Now the passages that have generated the greatest amount of confusion and controversy are those found in 1 Corinthians chapters 12 through 14. Some have suggested that Acts chapters 2, 10, and 19 do indeed describe speaking in a foreign language known to man, but that the gift represented in Corinthians is different. They argue that this form of ecstatic tongues is an angelic language used for personal prayer and the edification of the church.

However, when we study the terminology found in all of these passages from Mark 16:17 to Acts chapters 2, 10, and 19, we find that the Greek word for "tongue" is the same. In fact, the verb "to speak" in tongues is the same in all of these accounts. Consequently, there is only one gift of tongues.

Because the gift of tongues had become a permanent gift for those who received it, Paul gave some rules for the exercising of the gift during church. Apparently, many of the Corinthian believers were (1) causing commotion because several were speaking in tongues at the same time, (2) there was no one present who understood what they were saying, and (3) to the nonbelievers, who were watching, it seemed awkward, disorderly, and confusing. See 1 Corinthians 14:23.

When one considers that the purpose of "speaking in tongues" was to reach unbelievers, it was disastrous when many of the Corinthian believers were misappropriating the gift. The gift was to be a sign to unbelievers that God had a message of salvation for them personally. See 1 Corinthians 14:21-22.

First, Paul counsels them to speak in order, and then let only one interpret. See 1 Corinthians 14:27. The word for "interpret" means to "translate"--as from one known language to another. Consequently, one man would speak in an intelligible foreign language and then another man would translate it into the local language.

Second, if there is no one to interpret, let the one who speaks in tongues keep silent. See 1 Corinthians 14:28. The gift of tongues was given to communicate truth. If a believer speaks in German, but there are no unbelievers who understand German, then another believer who understands German should translate the message in a language that the others can understand, otherwise, the message is aimless and unintelligible to all. Paul testified that he would rather speak five words that people could understand than ten thousand words that no one could understand. See 1 Corinthians 14:18-19.

However, some have misunderstood the words of Paul when he said, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal." 1 Corinthians 13:1. The Greek conditional clause used in this passage indicates that Paul is speaking hypothetically. In other words, we know that man does not speak in the language of angels, but even if he could, it would profit him nothing if he had not the love of God in his heart.

Then in another place Paul says, "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Corinthians 14:2. The believer who speaks "in the spirit" is speaking by the Holy Spirit. What is he speaking? He "speaketh mysteries"? Does God inspire men to speak about odd and secret things? No. Believers are the "stewards of the mysteries of God." 1 Corinthians 4:1. His servants speak about the "mystery of godliness." 1 Timothy 3:16. We are to make known the mystery of God. We are to declare the truth about God that has been previously misunderstood. This truth is revealed by the power of the Holy Spirit. As Paul said, "And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel." Ephesians 6:19.

But why does it say that "no man understandeth him"? The problem in Corinth was that nobody present could understand him. He spoke in an intelligible language, but there was no one present who could understand that particular language. Consequently, he was not speaking unto men. As Paul said, "So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air." 1 Corinthians 14:9.

In summary, let it be understood that (1) Jesus predicted the need and the endowment of this special gift to speak in a foreign and "new tongue," so that the gospel could be preached throughout the world. (2) The very manifestation of this gift was to be a "sign" to unbelievers that the message they were hearing was from Heaven. (3) The gift of tongues is not some ecstatic and unintelligible tongue, but it is indeed a known human language. The purpose of the gift was to communicate the gospel to the world's billions who have spoken thousands of different languages and dialects. (4) There is indeed a counterfeit to the Biblical speaking in tongues. It has taken the world by storm. Satan will use this counterfeit manifestation to communicate error. He endeavors to work upon the senses and the lower nature of man, namely, man's appetite, passions, and desires. This is to keep man from settling into the truth with his higher nature, namely, man's intellect, reason, and conscience.

So often Satan has found success by playing upon the emotions of man and his senses, thereby bypassing his intellect, reason, and conscience. However, God's people must be intelligent upon that which is written in the Word of God. They must choose to do right, because it is right and because right doing is pleasing to God. They must allow their conscience to be wooed only by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4. Yet, so many are unsatisfied with the plain words of Scripture. They have a false salvational security because of this spiritual manifestation of tongues. Yet, those who shall make up the kingdom of God must live by faith. Day by day, moment by moment, they must walk with their Lord and Saviour. They must hunger and thirst for righteousness. See Matthew 5:6.

In summary, none of us are saved because we speak in tongues. Speaking in tongues is not even evidence that someone is saved. Many non-Christians and atheists speak in the same ecstatic and unintelligible tongue. Jesus warned the religious world, "Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe." John 4:48. We are not to put our faith in the signs and wonders. They will increase as time draws to a close. We are to trust in the promises of God and prepare to live with our Maker and Redeemer forever and ever.

 

Secondly, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit means to keep on rejecting the Holy Spirit when God is trying to speak to you. Until finally you are so blinded that you walk in darkness. But since the false kind of "Speaking in Tongues" that your husband is advocating is not coming from the Holy Spirit, then you dont have to worry about blaspheming the Holy Spirit by rejecting your husband's false doctrine.


Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Matt. 12:31.

Whatever the sin, if the soul repents and believes, the guilt is washed away in the blood of Christ; but he who rejects the work of the Holy Spirit is placing himself where repentance and faith cannot come to him. It is by the Spirit that God works upon the heart; when men willfully reject the Spirit, and declare it to be from Satan, they cut off the channel by which God can communicate with them. When the Spirit is finally rejected, there is no more that God can do for the soul. . . .

It is not God that blinds the eyes of men or hardens their hearts. He sends them light to correct their errors, and to lead them in safe paths; it is by the rejection of this light that the eyes are blinded and the heart hardened. Often the process is gradual, and almost imperceptible. Light comes to the soul through God's word, through His servants, or by the direct agency of His Spirit; but when one ray of light is disregarded, there is a partial benumbing of the spiritual perceptions, and the second revealing of light is less clearly discerned. So the darkness increases, until it is night in the soul. . . .

It is not necessary for us deliberately to choose the service of the kingdom of darkness in order to come under its dominion. We have only to neglect to ally ourselves with the kingdom of light. . . . The most common manifestation of the sin against the Holy Spirit is in persistently slighting Heaven's invitation to repent. Every step in the rejection of Christ is a step toward the rejection of salvation, and toward the sin against the Holy Spirit.

 

Slain in the spirit as in knocked to the ground so that the spirit may speak to you?

Then He said to me, "Son of man, stand on your feet that I may speak with you!"
(Ezekiel 2:1 NASB)

The Spirit then entered me and made me stand on my feet, and He spoke with me and said to me, "Go, shut yourself up in your house.
(Ezekiel 3:24 NASB)

His preacher left the Methodist Church? May very well be the best thing that happened in the UMC in the past 25 years!

 

susanpet:

If I were you I would go directly to Jesus with my problem and fast and pray, asking Him what to do because really, only God knows your entire situation. Only God knows you and your husband and all the details.

God knows exactly how you ought to handle things in your marriage.

Also, while you are fasting and praying you ought to do a thorough Bible study on the subjects on which you and your husband disagree. Dont just take our word for it or anybody's word for it. Study for yourself.

Because while you are so uncertain about what to believe, it just may be true that some day your husband will unfortunately win you over to his side. The false speaking in tongues movement has to do really, with spiritualism. It is not the "Holy" Spirit that is speaking through them.

It is just best that you study and pray because one person will tell you one thing and another will tell you another thing. You must study for yourself to find out what the truth is.

Then you will be able to turn this thing around and use it as a witnessing opportunity. The way that you act will be a testimony to your husband and everyone else ... in the face of persecution. But you wont be able to do that until you are certain what is truth. And you wont be able to do that until God Himself shows you how to handle it and how to respond to your husband properly.


Claudia

 

Claudia is right on target here, Susan.

"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him." ~ James 1:5

 

Good to see you again dear sis. I've thought of you often and wondered how you were doing. It is hard, isn't it? We have seen our son slowly drift into a world of darkness. It's been a long battle with the Oneness here and they continually multiply. Would to God He would send a missionary with a burden for these people, as we are heavily populated with the Jesus-Only sect.(apostolics here)

I sometimes think my son is 'coming to himself', but just when he's on the verge, satan pulls him back in. His life is such a mess and he is so sad. Please continue to keep him in your prayers, as I do you.

Always remember- God leads, satan pushes.

Love you bunches-granny. ~Malachi 3:16