2 Thess. 2:1-4, the Rapture

DeafPosttrib: //You have to accept what Christ saying, follow His word.//

You have to follow His word also. Here is one look at His Word:

BTW, Some folks have problems counting to TWO:
Here is a count for you:
1. the coming of Jesus in the air for His own
2. the coming of Jesus to the earth with His own

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Comparing the rapture/resurrection (R) AKA: gathering
with the Second Advent (SC): when Jesus comes
to destroy the Antichrist and set up the
Millennial Kingdom AKA: Glorious Appearance.

1R. Jesus comes for His own ( given physical bodies)
(John 14:3, 1 Thess 4:17)
1SC. Jesus comes with His own (already have physical bodies) (Rev 19:14)

2R. Jesus comes in the air (1 Thes 4:17)
2SC. Jesus comes to the earth
(Zech 14:4-5, Acts 1:11)

3R. Jesus comes to claim His Bride
(1 Thess 4:16-17)
3SC. Jesus comes with His Bride
(Rev 19:6-14)

4R. end of the Gentile Age
(Matthew 24:3, 24:31-44)
4SC. end of the Tribulation Period
(Revelation 19)

5R. Tribulation period begins
5SC. Millennial Kingdom begins

6R. Saved are delivered from wrath
(1 Thes 1:10, 5:9; Rev 3:10)
6SC. Unsaved experience the wrath of God
(Rev 6:12-17)

7R. No Signs precede the Rapture
(1 Thess. 5:1-3, Matthew 24:31-44)
7SC. Signs precede the Second Coming
(Luke 21-11-28, Matthew 24:21-30)

8R. Focus: Lord and Church
(1 Thess 4:13-18)
8SC. Focus: Israel and kingdom
(Romans 11)

9R. World is deceived (2 Thess 2:3-12)
9SC. Satan is bound (Rev 20:1-2)

10R. No judgement mentioned on earth
10SC. Follows the Tribulation period
judgement and followed by the sheep/goats
judgement.

11R. Time of joy. (1Thessalonians 4:17-18)
11SC. Time of sorrow. (Matthew 24:30)

12R. relative peace and prosperity. (Lk.17:26-30).
12SC. the worst war the world has ever seen. (Mt.24:21,22).

13R. Christians are promised they will be delivered
-- from the wrath to come
13SC. Israeli are told to flee the wrath to come

 

Da 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Postribers have a problem explaining this verse or making it fit into scripture "ANY PLACE".

There's a Covenant "CONFIRMED", and it's for "ONE WEEK", not a "HALF WEEK", and it during the "WEEK" the ABOD takes place. (A.bomination of D.esolation)

There's only "ONE POSSIBLE EXPLANATION" found in all of the scripture, the Pre trib rapture.

And the "Feast days" confirm it. (two witness principle)

 

Amen, Brother Me4Him -- Preach it!

 

Ed,

Later tonight, I will reply to you, on the comparing of rapture and second coming with verses as what you presence it yesterday.

Me4Him,

Dan. 9:27 do nothing with rapture or second coming either. Daniel 9:24-27 focus about the prophecy of Calvary, it already fulfilled 2,000 years.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

DeafPosttrib saidan. 9:27 do nothing with rapture or second coming either. Daniel 9:24-27 focus about the prophecy of Calvary, it already fulfilled 2,000 years.

I just want to say AMEN DPT!!

That is the way I see it. Thats all over. It allready happened!!

Peaise the Lord,

Tam

 

Ok, "preterist", explain this.

 

It looks like something you made up so you can explain how you "think" things are. It does not make sense to me.

Peace,

Tam

 

I didn't think you would, but then that is why I'm posting the following link.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3398.html

The above chart is explained about the fourth chart down, but I'd suggest reading all of them for a "complete picture" of scripture.

 

Ro 14:19 (nKJV):
Therefore let us pursue the things which make
for peace and the things by which one may edify
another.

1Co 10:23 (nKJV):
All things are lawful for me, but not all things
are helpful; all things are lawful for me,
but not all things edify.

1Th 5:11 (nKJV):
Therefore comfort each other and edify one another,
just as you also are doing.

 

#1. That is not a chart for historicists to "explain" and in fact is not accurate in its details.

#2. The 70 years of Jeremiah (Dan 9:1-5) ended in just after DAniel's day as they point to the return of Israel from Babylon.

#3. The 70 WEEKS (490 years) of Daniel 9 point to "The Messiah the Prince" -- the year of his annointing (Baptism) and the year he is "cut off" (crucified) and his work in making firm - the New Covenant.

And it says it starts with events in Jerusalem 484 years BEFORE the start of Christ's ministry and then provides a 490 year timeline going right INTO the KEY events in Christ's atoning death for mankind.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Me4Him, You referred to me as a preterist. The definition is below.

Noun 1. preterist - a theologian who believes that the Scripture prophecies of the Apocalypse (as in the Book of Revelations) have already been fulfilled

Just so you know; I do NOT think that the book of Revelation has already been fulfilled. We are going to have tribulation and there will be plenty to go around.

All I'm saying is what Bob Ryan said. That 490 years has already been fulfilled and accounted for.

Peace,

Tam

 

Bob's post had me "bumbfuzzled" as to exactly what he meant, now you've added to the "bumbfuzzled".

"HOW" can the 490 years be finished, IF there is "ONE WEEK" left, and if the trib isn't that "ONE WEEK", then, "WHAT"????

If I seem cornfused, it's because "I AM".

This is a "NEW" doctrine to me.

Jesus was "CUT OFF" (crucified) at the end of the 69th week, (483 years) so there's still "one week" (Seven years, trib period) remaining.

Da 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, (7x7=49 years)

Iron tools aren't allowed on the temple site, but laying the foundation requires "Cutting the stones" to match, so the foundation isn't consider part of building the temple, and the foundation required 3 years, with 46 years left.

Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?


and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off,

The threescore and two weeks is both verses is the same time period.

7x62=434, plus 49=483. Seven years short of 70.

Da 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

 

There's not one week left. There are no weeks left.

Dan. 9-27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The one week in the scripture above is the missing 7 years. The "He" that is referred to is Jesus. In the midst of the week, (or 3 1/2 years into it He was crucified. He was the supreme sacrifice and caused the sacrifaces to not be needed anymore.

That leaves 3 1/2 years of the 490 unaccounted for. 3 1/2 years after Jesus death, Steven had been stoned, various other things had happened, and the prophecy had been completed.

The whole prophecy of the 490 years pertained to the coming of the Messiah, as a baby, and ended 3 1/2 years after His death. It's over.

Selah,

Tam

 

Yes, it is true, that Dan. 9:24 tells us, it is for Daniel's people, and Jerusalem.

But, this covenant does not limited for the Jews of Israel only, also, whole world according 1 John 2:2 says: "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and NOT for ours only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD."

Daniel 9:27 speaks of the prophecy about Calvary will be fulfilled 490 years later, as God has promised to Jews, that He shall send Messiah to atonement their sins, and to fulfilled it. Christ already came and to atone Jews' sins, and to fulfilled it by Calvary.

Also, Daniel 9:24 DOES APPLY to us, that our Messiah died for our sins. Aren't we, God's people? Aren't we, the part of New Jerusalem?

Again, Daniel 9:24-27 have do nothing with rapture or second coming. It focus on Calvary already fulfilled 2000 years ago. Early Christians understood what Daniel 9:24-27 talking about. They knew this passage is focus on Calvary, not second coming.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

DeafPosttrib: //Again, Daniel 9:24-27 have do nothing with rapture
or second coming. It focus on Calvary already fulfilled
2000 years ago. Early Christians understood what
Daniel 9:24-27 talking about. They knew this passage
is focus on Calvary, not second coming.//

Dan 9:26-27 (KJV1611 Edition):
And after threescore and two weekes, shall Messiah be cut off,
but not for himselfe, and the people of the Prince that shall
come, shall destroy the citie, and the Sanctuarie, and the ende
thereof shall be with a flood, and vnto the ende of the warre
desolations are determined.
27 And hee shall confirme the couenant with many for one weeke:
and in the midst of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice
and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading
of abominations hee shall make it desolate, euen
vntill the consummation, & that determined,
shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

To make 'he' in verse 27 as "Messiah" in verse 26 one must
make many illogical assumptions and conclusions.

1. The middle of the 70th week is 'after' 7+62 weeks,
but the the middle of the 70th week is a bit late./

2. "the people of the prince who shall come" will
destroy Jerusalme. If 'the prince who shall come'
is Messiah the prince, then the Jews had to have destroyed
the temple.

3. the first half of the 70th week has to be made
the AT MOST 2½-year ministry of Jesus (this is poor
arithemetic)

4. the second half of the 70th week has to stretch
from 33AD when Jesus died to 70AD (a stretch of37 years)
when the Temple was 'abominated'.

5. Jesus made a 7-year covenent about a salvation
process that grants 'eternal life' (John 3:16)?

6. Jesus has to commit the Abomination of Desolation?

7, 8, 9, ... /etc./

Lots of assumptions one has to make to complete their error

 

#1. How can the last 7 years (last seven days) of those 70 weeks be "LEFT" when the FIRST week started 500 years BC????

#2. How can you START with a date around 450 BC and then count 490 years (70 weeks of years) to get to something BEYOND the year 1000 AD much less BEYOND 2000 AD???

#3. Why is it "bumfuzzling" you that the 70 years of Daniel 9:1-5 AND the 70 weeks of years of Daniel 9:22-end ARE CONTIGUOUS TIMELINES just like ALL TIMELINE prophecies in the Bible??

Why is it that "STAYING with THE SAME system" used IN ALL OF SCRIPTURE is "bumfuzzling you"??

(Just a few questions that come to mind when reading your response).

In Christ,

Bob

 

It's very simple. Check this out!!

The 490 years begin with a decree by King Artaxerxes to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.
Ezra 7-11 Now this is the copy of the letter that the king Artaxerxes gave unto Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the LORD, and of his statutes to Israel.
12 Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time.
13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
14 Forasmuch as thou art sent of the king, and of his seven counsellors, to inquire concerning Judah and Jerusalem, according to the law of thy God which is in thine hand; this happened in 457 BC.


Once we have fixed the date to start the prophecies of the 70 weeks, their chronology is a simple matter. We can summarize it as follows:

457 B.C. Decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem
408 B.C. 7 weeks to rebuild the city (49 years)
A.D. 27 After 69 weeks the Prince was anointed (baptism of Jesus, Luke 3:1, 21) (483 years)
A.D. 30/31 The Messiah died during the last week (crucifixion of Christ)
A.D. 34 Stoning of Stephen (Acts 6:12-7:60) and the gospel reaches the Gentile world (Acts 9, 10).

If you follow the events, logically, you will come to the correct answer.

The 490 years has been fulfilled.

Peace,

Tam

 

The 70 weeks of Daniel 9 constitute the GREATEST messianic timeline prophecy in all of scripture.

But those who seek to slice/dice/chop-and-toss the timeline into disconnected chunks obliterate ALL references to Christ from WITHIN the timeline. They exchange the antichrist for Christ - by claiming that all the things DONE IN the timeline are done BY the antichrist.

The more reasonable view is to let the SPECIFIC work of Christ mentioned in Daniel 9 STAY inside the contiguous timeline sequence given in this timeline prophecy JUST as we do with ALL timeline prophecies of scripture.

In Christ,

Bob