Featured Once Saved, Always Saved?

"All" would be a vast stretch. Classical Arminians believe in total depravity. There are definitely some classical Arminians left. The only disagreement a High Calvinist and a Classical Arminian have is on Unconditional Election and Irresistable Grace. In all fairness, Calvin himself was not very firm on Irresistable grace.

 

Tim,

Before I address who determines good works, let us agree that we are commanded to perform them. Do you agree that Ephesians 2:10 is a command and not a suggestion? If so, then there is no debate on whether Christians should do good works.

As to who determines good works, Scripture has something to say about that.

Galatians 5:22-23
1 John 3:17-18
Ephesians 4:32
1 Corinthians 15:58
James 2:14-17

Can we be arrogant enough to appoint such judges? Well, we certainly can be arrogant. There is no shortage of that attitude in the world, and even in the church. But if Scripture is the final arbiter, then I daresay we are not going to call Scripture, or its author, arrogant. Also, there is no need to have "fruit inspectors". If we are active members of a local body of believers, those we worship with, and those who have charge over our souls (pastors and elders), will have a pretty good idea of whether we are walking the talk. Is it possible to deceive those who care about us? Sure. But Ephesians 2:10 is not talking about those who are practical atheists. Paul wrote those words to tell the Ephesian church that they were created for good works. He did not write a polemic on what those good works were. Some things in the Christian life are self-evident. I think Paul trusted his audience enough that they intuitively knew a good work when they saw it. Plus, he wrote about good works elsewhere.

As far as passing judgment on others, where in the world did that come from? I never suggested anything of the sort. I never even implied it. I think you are overreacting just a tad.

 

Classical Arminians taught prevenient grace, which was not as bad, but smelled just as putrid. Prevenient grace would be like Jesus calling Lazarus out, and in this calling, Lazarus comes out and says "no thanks, I'm good", then goes back in and dies again. Oh, plus he puts the stone back in front of the tomb before going back to being dead.

 

And the freedom fallen man has is bondage to sin.[Matthew 6:24 & Romans 6:16]

 

I still may be misunderstanding you. Arminius believed that man was in bondage of the will until God God intervened with Divine Grace.

"In this state, the Free Will of man towards the True Good is not only wounded, maimed, infirm, bent and weakened; but it is also imprisoned, destroyed, and lost: And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace, but it has no power whatever except such as are excited by Divine Grace." Arminius

 

Yes, they taught resistable grace. It has no similarity to Lazarus. It is an invitation.

 

Wishing you all the best for your return to health.

Perhaps, instead of a long introductory post (as you did in your Confusion thread and in your Searching with all of [your] heart thread), you would simply provide concise replies to the comments given here. Your research should be organized well enough to do this. And, if you have checked the archive, you will see that the topic of "Once Saved, Always Saved," has been thoroughly debated.

Doing the above, will greatly minimize ambiguity and repetitious statements. It will also provide a clear picture of what you believe in easily digestible capsules of thought.

However, these are only suggestions. Take what you like, and leave the rest.

May the Lord bless you in your pursuit of the Truth of God's Word.

 

Steven Yeadon, wrote: Someone asked me when I would respond, I will most likely respond tomorrow as I feel terrible today.

Wishing you all the best for your return to health.

Perhaps, instead of a long introductory post (as you did in your Confusion thread and in your Searching with all of [your] heart thread), you would simply provide concise replies to the comments given here. Your research should be organized well enough to do this. And, if you have checked the archive, you will see that the topic of "Once Saved, Always Saved," has been thoroughly debated.

Doing the above, will greatly minimize ambiguity and repetitious statements. It will also provide a clear picture of what you believe in easily digestible capsules of thought.

However, these are only suggestions. Take what you like, and leave the rest.

May the Lord bless you in your pursuit of the Truth of God's Word.

 

In that quote, Arminius did not believe that the will of man was, as Paul inferred and described it, as utterly dead (Eph. 2:1). Arminius believed the will of man needed God to come along side it, thus the Synergist model of soteriology. God assisted the human will, but the human will still needed to believe on its own. The Monergist model considers the sinful human will completely dead (spiritually), incapable of any positive assent to God. Instead of cooperating with man, God made man capable of belief by replacing the spiritual heart of the sinner (Ezekiel 36:26). Once God does this divine work, the former sinner is capable of believing, not in cooperation with God, but as a consequence of what God has done.

 

Oh yes it does have a similarity to Lazarus. The bible is replete with natural occurrences that portray a spiritual truth. Lazarus was physically dead just as we were spiritually dead. He was entombed and we were entombed. Jesus had to call him out just as He had to call us out. He had to give life to Lazarus so that he could come out just as He had to give us life to come out.

The valley of dry bones in Ezekiel 37 portray the same spiritual truth. The widow's son in 1 Kings 17 portrayed this, too. The widow' son at Nain in Luke 7 portrayed this truth, too.

 

How about this verse? Matt. 10:22 You will be hated by all men for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Or this one?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

I believe those verses pretty well kill calvinism. I believe EVERYONE has the OPPORTUNITY to be saved, that God did NOT create anyone solely for the purpose of going to hell.

And I believe Jesus will ALWAYS do HIS part & never abandon any saint, but it may be possible for one to abandon Jesus. I don't plan to ever do that, so I have no way to find out. But I DO know of several individuals who turned thelr backs on their faith. One may argue they never had TRUE faith to begin with, but they certainly did outwardly.

Then, there's this very-telling verses:

Hebrews 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

There's no satisfactorily explaining away that set of verses. But again, I don't plan to "test" them myself.

 

So, Doc C, do ya believe a Christian can deliberately sin & turn his back on Jesus with no consequences?


And a great many have heard the Gospel but not acted on it when they first heard it, but came to Jesus later.

 

Read Romans 6. Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound? May it never be! How are we who are dead to sin still live in it?

Now, it is possible for Christians to fall into a season of disobedience. We understand from scripture that the Lord took a sinning brother home (1 Cor. 5:5) because of his disobedience. I think the difference is that in Romans 6 Paul is describing professed believers who sin without a pang of conscience, and continue doing so.

As for those who have heard the gospel and not acted on it until later, so what? God calls His elect on his timetable. What if they hear the gospel 30 times until the believe?


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